Robert Paton

[Richard_Mandell]

Does anyone know if Stuart Paton (of Woking fame) had a brother (or other relative) named Robert Paton?

[Tony_Muldoon]

Richard if you don't get what you need shoot Bob Crosby an IM.  If anyone knows....


but others might chime in first, Good luck,


(and perhaps you'll share what prompted the Question?)

[Richard_Mandell]

Tony,


I started with Bob on Saturday and he was unaware.  What prompted the question is that I opened up my first edition of Concerning Golf by John Low and noticed a nameplate on the inside cover with the name Robert Paton.  Putting two and tow together, I'm hoping I am in possession of Robert Paton's personal copy of his brother's associate's book.

[Tom_Doak]

Seems likely it was a relative, but why do you think a brother instead of father or son?


I was just reading the club history of Woking the other day.  There is a lot of info about Stuart Paton but I don't remember that it mentioned the names of any of his family members.  Unfortunately, I just left it behind at my last stop in SC, so I can't look it up for you.

[Adam Lawrence]

You've hit on a tricky one Rich. I've never been able to find out anything about Paton's personal life. Low is easy, he's all over the media and stuff (his unusual middle name makes him easy to search for) but "J. Stuart Paton" could be anybody.

[Richard_Mandell]

Tom,


He could just as easily be a father or son.  So let me re-phrase my question:  Does anyone know if Stuart Paton had a relative named Robert?  Any help would be appreciated.

[Niall C]

Richard


From what I can see John Archibald Stuart Paton was born in Tillicoultry in 1872 to his father John. He had at least 4 older brothers, none of whom were called Robert. He also had a younger brother and he wasn't called Robert either. At some point before 1901 census he moved to Hook Heath, Woking and appears to have stayed in the area until his death in 1946.


He appears to have remained single at least up to 1939. I suppose it is possible that he had a son or that some other relative was called Robert but it certainly doesn't appear that he had a son, brother or father were called Robert. At the end of the day the book sold a reasonable number of copies and Paton isn't that uncommon a name so perhaps a family connection to Stuart Paton is unlikely.


Niall

[BCrosby]

Low was a near neighbor on Hook Heath. Their houses overlooked the 17th/18th holes at Woking.


I would love to know more about Paton's profession/business. I have seen references that his family owned a publishing house that specialized in religious texts, but have not been able to confirm it.


Bob 

[Adam Lawrence]

Richard

From what I can see John Archibald Stuart Paton was born in Tillicoultry in 1872 to his father John. He had at least 4 older brothers, none of whom were called Robert. He also had a younger brother and he wasn't called Robert either. At some point before 1901 census he moved to Hook Heath, Woking and appears to have stayed in the area until his death in 1946.

He appears to have remained single at least up to 1939. I suppose it is possible that he had a son or that some other relative was called Robert but it certainly doesn't appear that he had a son, brother or father were called Robert. At the end of the day the book sold a reasonable number of copies and Paton isn't that uncommon a name so perhaps a family connection to Stuart Paton is unlikely.

Niall

Well found Niall

According to Ancestry, Paton's father John had a brother named Robert, born 1845. Unfortunately said brother died as a young boy in 1850.

Rich, if you have an Ancestry subscription, find Paton using the info provided by Niall and dig around -- see what you can find.


Edited to add: I found evidence of Paton playing a match for the Oxford and Cambridge Golfing Society so he must have attended one or other university and won his Blue. But I haven't been able to find any more evidence yet -- another route of research.

Edited a second time to add: When Paton died in 1946, according to the Probate Register, he left an estate worth £73,000, which translates to close to three million in today's money. His father is listed in the 1881 Census as 'junior partner of John Paton & Co Tilicoultry'. Trying to trace the company.

Edited a third time to add: I'm pretty sure they were textile (woollen) manufacturers.

[Marty Bonnar]

Tillicoultry is/was a mill town, powered by the streams pouring off the Ochils. Paton's are/were a big producer of wools and threads. Possibly the same family.
F.
PS https://scotlandsplaces.gov.uk/record/hes/48278/tillicoultry-lower-mill-street-patons-mill/rcahms?item=1215108

[Richard_Mandell]

Guys,


Thanks for the efforts on this.  With friends like these, who needs researchers?  If you find anything else, please share.

[Doug Lionberger]

Wrong thread.  Apologies.

[Niall C]

Adam,


I think we're basically looking up the same stuff on Ancestry. Clicking on the father he comes up as a junior partner in John Paton & Co as you say. I'm not sure if it was a later census or another document but I saw something that said he was into wool manufacture which ties in with FBD's comment.


With regards to Stuart, the 1901 and 1911 census refer to him as being a publisher and employer (from memory) which would put him as a partner or (part) owner of publishing business. Interestingly Hodder & Stoughton who published Concerning Golf were well known for publishing religious texts. According to Wiki the company dates from 1840. It gives a fairly decent run-down of it's publishing history and mentions some ownership records but not a lot and certainly doesn't mention Paton but it might make sense if he was owner/partner there.


In terms of Paton meeting Low I wonder if they actually knew each other from school or social circles given where Low was educated and where they both lived growing up ?


Niall

[Marty Bonnar]

I’ve just spent a while re-reading (oh, the joys of retirement!) Bob C’s excellent essays and Darwin’s comments in ‘Architectooralooral’ on the Woking GC website.
So, both Paton and Low were members and Past Captains of the Club as well as being chums. Darwin ‘spent weekends at Paton’s home’. The three were obviously fast friends.
I love his comment that Paton was referred to as being Woking’s Mussolini by an ‘irreverent writer’ too!
He also appears to credit Paton solely as being the designer of the Fourth hole.
Love the historical rabbit-holes we can find ourselves exploring.
F.

[Adam Lawrence]

Can't yet work out where Paton went to school or uni. He had one brother go to Fettes and another to Loretto (both top Scottish public, which is to say private, schools). But as yet no proof on the man himself.

[Tom_Doak]

Can't yet work out where Paton went to school or uni. He had one brother go to Fettes and another to Loretto (both top Scottish public, which is to say private, schools). But as yet no proof on the man himself.

Adam:


The Woking club history mentions that the Oxford & Cambridge Golfing Society made him an extraordinary member, even though he attended neither school!


Also that he had turned down a nomination to be captain of the R & A.


There is a bunch of great stuff in that book - full chapters on Low, Paton and Darwin, with extended passages by Darwin about the other two.  The three of them were the only presidents of Woking from the early 1900’s up to Darwin’s passing in 1961. 

[Adam Lawrence]

Can't yet work out where Paton went to school or uni. He had one brother go to Fettes and another to Loretto (both top Scottish public, which is to say private, schools). But as yet no proof on the man himself.

Adam:


The Woking club history mentions that the Oxford & Cambridge Golfing Society made him an extraordinary member, even though he attended neither school!


Also that he had turned down a nomination to be captain of the R & A.


There is a bunch of great stuff in that book - full chapters on Low, Paton and Darwin, with extended passages by Darwin about the other two.  The three of them were the only presidents of Woking from the early 1900’s up to Darwin’s passing in 1961. 

I've got A Temple of Golf too. Should have looked in it!

[BCrosby]

Fascinating about Stuart Paton is that he was close to so many of the movers and shakers of Edwardian golf. He, Darwin and Low were close friends. He served on a number of R&A committees, including under Low on the Rules Committee over several decades. Paton was a member of the sub-committee appointed by Low to research and draft the first regulations limiting the ball. He was also friends with Crumbo Croome, Mure Fergusson and no doubt many others. Scratch the surface, and Paton's name often pops up.


Yet he wrote virtually nothing about the game (or about anything else as far as I can tell).


Bob 

[Richard_Mandell]

Funny, Adam.  I've got it also.  Could have started there.  All these books and I go straight to the computer!