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Sven Nilsen

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Does a caddie help in appreciating a course?
« Reply #75 on: January 27, 2022, 06:52:53 PM »
Corey:


If we can read your game in 2 or 3 holes we can also certainly figure out how to keep the group moving.  But that's not our job.  They have rangers for that.


We're there to make the experience on the course as good as it can be for everyone we encounter.  Obviously, not every caddie/player relationship works out, but most do.


Sven


PS - Unless there are specific requests for caddies beforehand, in those large groups like the OM opening caddies are assigned to tee times, not players.  It's the only way to make it work.  Next time, if you want a specific guy call the shack and get it set up in advance.
"As much as we have learned about the history of golf architecture in the last ten plus years, I'm convinced we have only scratched the surface."  A GCA Poster

"There's the golf hole; play it any way you please." Donald Ross

archie_struthers

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Does a caddie help in appreciating a course?
« Reply #76 on: January 27, 2022, 08:21:33 PM »
 8)


JK


don't feel bad , after playing college soccer I volunteered to help assist the kids program in my hometown of Ocean City and they said I wasn't qualified. Made me feel better when they also told my wife her services for the tourism committee weren't needed either!

Jeff Schley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Does a caddie help in appreciating a course?
« Reply #77 on: January 28, 2022, 06:46:12 AM »
Love the insights from all the caddies here. Another point is probably how does that "appreciation" of the course manifest itself into ripping off a few extra $20's?
Also I know some of this crew will need some WD-40 to even reach into their wallets! ;D
"To give anything less than your best, is to sacrifice your gifts."
- Steve Prefontaine

Sean_A

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Does a caddie help in appreciating a course? New
« Reply #78 on: January 29, 2022, 04:25:13 AM »

Sven

I was at Bandon and the caddie's were awesome....

Did not love that we were running a tournament that Mr. Keiser was participating in and we could not keep the same caddie for multiple days.  Again though, all were awesome.

Perhaps you mistook what I was trying to say? Clueless players with a caddie can actually lengthen a round.  They rely too much on a caddie and ask for ridiculous things while waiting for the attention. 

I understand a caddie is in a difficult situation, and that is why I blame the PLAYER not the caddie.  I suspect the average 15 handicap at Bandon thinks the caddie is supposed to do everything a tour caddie they see on TV would do. 

And that is why I made the crack about needing a caddie to line up a third and fourth put and to run after divots or put turf repair mix down.

My experience is that at many of the more prestigious clubs that caddies are more empowered to keep the game moving etc etc because of the culture.

My experience is similar. Most times when I see a group of four caddies at publicly accessible courses it is going to be a slower round than normal. It ain't the fault of caddies. Although I will say at Pinehurst one time the caddies pushed us along nicely. They were good at hinting of slow play.

Ciao
« Last Edit: January 29, 2022, 02:33:29 PM by Sean_A »
New plays planned for 2024: Nothing

Tim Martin

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Does a caddie help in appreciating a course?
« Reply #79 on: January 29, 2022, 08:10:00 AM »

Sven

I was at Bandon and the caddie's were awesome....

Did not love that we were running a tournament that Mr. Keiser was participating in and we could not keep the same caddie for multiple days.  Again though, all were awesome.

Perhaps you mistook what I was trying to say? Clueless players with a caddie can actually lengthen a round.  They rely too much on a caddie and ask for ridiculous things while waiting for the attention. 

I understand a caddie is in a difficult situation, and that is why I blame the PLAYER not the caddie.  I suspect the average 15 handicap at Bandon thinks the caddie is supposed to do everything a tour caddie they see on TV would do. 

And that is why I made the crack about needing a caddie to line up a third and fourth put and to run after divots or put turf repair mix down.

My experience is that at many of the more prestigious clubs that caddies are more empowered to keep the game moving etc etc because of the culture.

My experience is similar. Most times when I see a group of four caddies at publicly accessible courses it is going to be a slower round than normal. It ain't the fault of caddies. Although I will say at Pinehurst one time the caddies pushed us along nicely. They were good at hinting of slow play.

Ciao

Ciao


Agree with Sean and would add that the Streamsong caddies are adept at getting you around at a nice pace without making you feel rushed.

Rick Sides

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Does a caddie help in appreciating a course?
« Reply #80 on: January 29, 2022, 08:30:11 AM »
I played with a caddy once and one guy in the group I didn’t know had a gps device the entire round and lasered pins all the time when the caddies gave him yardage . The caddies where both really good and accurate but I think he pissed them off

John Kavanaugh

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Does a caddie help in appreciating a course?
« Reply #81 on: January 29, 2022, 08:45:18 AM »
Sometimes accurate enough isn’t what you are looking for.

Tommy Williamsen

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Does a caddie help in appreciating a course?
« Reply #82 on: January 29, 2022, 09:54:51 AM »
I played with a caddy once and one guy in the group I didn’t know had a gps device the entire round and lasered pins all the time when the caddies gave him yardage . The caddies where both really good and accurate but I think he pissed them off


It probably would have been polite to have said, "I'll get my own yardages." They would have been fine with that. I have always felt that I need to be clear about what I want and don't want. For instance inside 75 yards I don't want a yardage. It is all feel from there to the pin.
Where there is no love, put love; there you will find love.
St. John of the Cross

"Deep within your soul-space is a magnificent cathedral where you are sweet beyond telling." Rumi

Mark_Fine

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Does a caddie help in appreciating a course?
« Reply #83 on: January 29, 2022, 10:57:18 AM »
Tommy,
To answer your question, I think ANY extra player or caddie (even just a bag carrier) can offer a perspective of a golf course.  Whether it helps or not will vary but hearing other thoughts and opinions is usually never bad.  What you do with them is another matter. 

Tommy Williamsen

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Does a caddie help in appreciating a course?
« Reply #84 on: January 29, 2022, 11:51:19 AM »
Tommy,
To answer your question, I think ANY extra player or caddie (even just a bag carrier) can offer a perspective of a golf course.  Whether it helps or not will vary but hearing other thoughts and opinions is usually never bad.  What you do with them is another matter.


Mark, I had a great caddie at Oakland Hills this past September. He was a wealth of information for me. OH has some really interesting, sloping, and undulating greens. It mattered where I hit the tee ball to get to a pin and where to land the ball to get to that pin. I could appreciate and understand the course so much better than if I had grabbed my own bag walked around.
Where there is no love, put love; there you will find love.
St. John of the Cross

"Deep within your soul-space is a magnificent cathedral where you are sweet beyond telling." Rumi

Lou_Duran

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Does a caddie help in appreciating a course?
« Reply #85 on: January 29, 2022, 12:09:39 PM »
I find that an excellent caddie is invaluable, particularly on a complex golf course.   

That being said, as a former caddie I can usually determine their value within the first hole or two and adjust expectations accordingly.   It's a two-way street.


I am reminded of an early morning round in San Francisco many years ago when there were only two caddies for our threesome.  I took the Portuguese guy who was in the U.S. for a few months to earn some money, and was new to golf and caddying.  The other players shared an "experienced" local.  Mine was entertainingly chatty in his heavily-accented English, but did an excellent job of keeping up and watching my ball.  One could swear that the other caddie was mute and maybe influenced by a severe vitamin deficiency.  Not only was he generally many yards behind trying to carry two light bags, but he didn't rake bunkers, fix ball marks, or otherwise provide advice.  By the 18th hole, one of his players had had enough and just threw a rake into a fairway bunker, walking away in disgust without raking.  His caddie looked at him with a WTF stare in his face; my caddie and I almost died laughing from the other side of the fairway as we could see things build through the round.  My caddie was well-compensated and invited me to visit Portugal and stay at this house.   The other caddie probably went home unhappy with his pay and with a low opinion of his clients.


On another round further south, I had an excellent caddie who let me know who was boss by the second hole ("Lou, if you keep making me chase your divots, we're not going to get along").  As a pen and pencil type, I like to know my distance on approach shots to the middle of the green and the hole location relative to that number.  The course had no yardage markers and Barry simply refused to give me that information.  Instead, he would just hand me a club and tell me to hit it as a percentage of a full shot (ditto on putts).  I had a good round going into the 14th hole where he again handed me too much club on my approach and told me to hit it around 85%.  I came over the top with a lazy turn off the hips through the ball, hit it long left, and had to hit a great up and down in three for a bogie.  Next hole he again gives me more club than I want to hit, we argued, he wouldn't relent, and I hit the ball 30-40 yards over the green into no man's land.  Another bogie and Barry stopped talking to me.  It got worse from there, but he was such a good reader of greens that when I returned a year or so later, I asked for him again.  He didn't have a clue who I was.


The best caddie I ever had was further south off the coast, a guy who had gone to one of CA's fine universities for a year before  deciding to take some time off.  An excellent player with outstanding social skills, 20+ years later, he still hadn't gone back to school, but was facing a dilemma: his fiancee conditioned their future on him re-starting his education and getting a "regular" job.  He gave me his card in case our foursome wanted his services while in the area, but he was booked-up throughout our stay.  The only downside of that experience was that our round took 4.5 hours as our two lesser players couldn't pull the trigger without consultation, and we missed the cocktail hour at the home of one of Golf's most beloved.


I generally prefer not taking a caddie, but no question that a good one can help in producing a better score.  Fortunately, as I've gotten older, my appreciation of a golf course is not dependent on how I play.  Even if it was gratis, I'd prefer playing a course at least for the first time relying on my own wits.  It is not a big deal to me one way or another, totally dependent on the club's requirements and the preference of my companions.