[Mark Mammel]

Having bunkers defined as waste areas- see Sand Valley- allows a good compromise. Yes, the good player in manicured sand can hit a fine shot. This defeats the purpose of the bunker. It is a hazard, supposedly a 1/2 shot penalty (or higher in many cases). Why should bunkers be the preferred bail-out for the good player? A waste area allows the club to be grounded, but requires a shot from a lousy lie. And all the best.

[Jon Sweet]

The less likely you are to get up and down,  the more you have to take into account that bunker strategically. But I think when you look at the odds of getting up and down for even accomplished players, we have to consider sand a penalizing area.  I think we have a more fun and more interesting situation if the odds are 50-50 than close to zero. I can only speak for myself, but if there’s a 50% chance I’m making bogey, that bunker is definitely on my mind.

I think this is yet another example of good players thinking about their own games, surely, since the odds of an average player getting up and down out of a bunker are nowhere near 50%.  So why, exactly, is the game better when the odds are 50-50 for you?  If the odds of getting up and down from sand are just as good as from the rough around the other sides of the green, then is the bunker REALLY on your mind?

With an evenly maintained bunker, would not the average to less than average player still have a better opportunity than from a poorly maintained one? I’d say an unevenly maintained one still the better player wins out IE they’ll at least get it out while the poorer player has far less of a chance out of a crap lie. I believe this is a rising tide lifts all boats, just one guy has a yacht and the other a canoe.

[Sean_A]

Good sand provides the better bunker player an increased chance of exerting his or her superiority. I think it is more fun and more interesting trying to pull off a difficult shot from good sand than slashing at a ball from a footprint.

Disagree 100%. It's when circumstances get difficult that the truly skilled and creative player shines through.
atb

Yes, this is where the rubber meets the road . . . the idea that the better player should have a better chance of escaping without penalty, even when he makes a mistake on the previous shot.


I am not advocating that we trample elephants through bunkers, although I could live with it, because it would make players think more about avoiding the bunkers on a course.  Imperfect sand is a less penal way of achieving the same objective [and it's also cheaper].

Sure, don't mind shitty whatever, just don't build 60 bunkers on a course and change the rule to allow a penalty drops similar to water. Just like deep rough, I don't see the point in offering the same recovery shot too often. But, just like well scratchy lies rough, I like the idea of random luck in sand whee there may or may not be a play. But give me the option of a penalty drop without sacrificing yardage. Shit, they are offering that for a lost ball and OOB!

Ciao

[Brad Lawrence]

The less likely you are to get up and down,  the more you have to take into account that bunker strategically. But I think when you look at the odds of getting up and down for even accomplished players, we have to consider sand a penalizing area.  I think we have a more fun and more interesting situation if the odds are 50-50 than close to zero. I can only speak for myself, but if there’s a 50% chance I’m making bogey, that bunker is definitely on my mind.

I think this is yet another example of good players thinking about their own games, surely, since the odds of an average player getting up and down out of a bunker are nowhere near 50%.  So why, exactly, is the game better when the odds are 50-50 for you?  If the odds of getting up and down from sand are just as good as from the rough around the other sides of the green, then is the bunker REALLY on your mind?

I don’t build courses. I don’t have to think about these issues through the lens of anybody other than myself.  I feel like here I’m being accused of being too much of a snowflake by some and not enough of a snowflake by others.


I consider myself a good bunker player, but I certainly think my odds are better of getting up and down from the non-sand areas near the green.  Barring water and super deep rough, I would consider the bunkers the worse places to miss most greens, even as a good bunker player, even if the sand is well maintained.

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