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Mike Vegis @ Kiawah

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What's next for The Ocean Course
« on: November 17, 2003, 02:16:20 PM »
We're hosting the 2005 PGA Club Professional Championship.  Here's an interesting article from the Charleston Post & Courier sports columnist on what lies ahead for The Ocean Course... ;) 8)

Is a major next for Kiawah?

BY KEN BURGER
Of The Post and Courier Staff

KIAWAH ISLAND--As the last putt fell Sunday afternoon at the World Cup, one could only wonder what's next for this island golf resort.
Having hit the world stage by hosting the 1991 Ryder Cup, Kiawah has since been the site for two World Cup championships and the Warburg Cup. All of which looks like a stairway to the stars. It's just a matter of how high they can go.

It's obvious that Kiawah wants to be a major player in the golf world. While events like this week's World Cup are nice and provide a warm, fuzzy venue for international team competition, they certainly cost more than they make.

Unless you consider them an investment in the future.

The Ocean Course became famous after the 1991 Ryder Cup known as the "War By The Shore." Since then, affluent tourists have lined up to pay $250 in greens fees to be humiliated on this championship layout. But the bigger payoff may be yet to come.

MOVER, SHAKER

The key could be the recent hiring of Roger Warren as Kiawah's director of golf. Warren, who is about to ascend to the presidency of the PGA of America, is a mover and shaker in the world of major golf championships.

"Our goal is to have the highest caliber event that befits a course as great as the Ocean Course," Warren said Sunday. "Technology is making some great courses obsolete. But the genius of Pete Dye's design of this course is that it combines the elements of length and wind and a challenging layout. So, our ultimate goal is to hold a major championship here at the Ocean Course."

But some say the Ocean Course has drawbacks. That it couldn't handle a major.

"The perceived negatives really don't exist," Warren said. "Can we handle 40,000 fans? Well, we handled 25,000 for the '91 Ryder Cup and we can easily build bleachers over these dunes and handle 50,000 fans. The other thing is parking, but we can overcome that as well."

WHAT, WHEN?

That being said, one only has to do a simple process of elimination to figure out which major championship is the most likely to come to Kiawah.

Obviously, the Masters and British Open are out. That leaves the U.S. Open or the PGA Championship. The USGA runs the Open and the PGA of America, which Warren will soon head, runs the PGA Championship.

"As president, of course, I would recuse myself from any votes involving Kiawah," Warren said. "But we would love to get a PGA Championship. The events we've had here in the past have all been team play. But people would love to see the best players in the world play stroke play on this golf course.

"That is one of my goals. It's what I was hired to do and I would be disappointed if it doesn't happen."

But when? Well, the PGA Championships are already booked through 2011. But Warren said there's also a possibility of a Senior PGA Championship or the Presidents Cup, which matches the U.S. against the rest of the world other than Europe, which is available for 2009.

So stay tuned. Something big is sure to happen here at Kiawah. We just don't know what, or when.



« Last Edit: November 17, 2003, 02:17:59 PM by Mike Vegis @ Kiawah »

Mike Vegis @ Kiawah

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Re:What's next for The Ocean Course
« Reply #1 on: November 17, 2003, 02:23:05 PM »
Yup...

ChasLawler

Re:What's next for The Ocean Course
« Reply #2 on: November 17, 2003, 02:44:43 PM »
Like I said in the other thread about the Ocean Course, a PGA Championship would be really cool at Kiawah, but I think it's just too hot down there in August.

Scott_Burroughs

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Re:What's next for The Ocean Course
« Reply #3 on: November 17, 2003, 02:50:46 PM »
Too hot in August?  Didn't seem to bother them in Atlanta two years ago.  Or Oklahoma for the U.S. Open in June.  There was worry of excessive heat for Pinehurst in June and near-record cool temperatures occurred.

At least at Kiawah, it would be windy -and it's almost always about 5 degrees cooler at the ocean than it is inland.

Jeff Goldman

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Re:What's next for The Ocean Course
« Reply #4 on: November 17, 2003, 03:23:50 PM »
Shivas, not a really good 2nd hole either...or .... ;D
That was one hellacious beaver.

Mike Vegis @ Kiawah

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:What's next for The Ocean Course
« Reply #5 on: November 17, 2003, 03:26:44 PM »
perhaps he can verify the crowned nature of the fairway on perhaps the worst first hole in golf #1 (formerly #10) at Seven Bridges, a 500 yard par 5 where the smart play from the tee is an 8 iron  ::) due to the drainage ponds left and right to prevent massive flooding on that low spot on the property when we get a 45 minute drizzle here in Chicago!  ;D

The operative word is "Formerly" from Seven Bridges.  His job now is to defend and promote Kiawah... ;D

ChasLawler

Re:What's next for The Ocean Course
« Reply #6 on: November 17, 2003, 05:04:24 PM »
Too hot in August?  Didn't seem to bother them in Atlanta two years ago.  Or Oklahoma for the U.S. Open in June.  There was worry of excessive heat for Pinehurst in June and near-record cool temperatures occurred.

At least at Kiawah, it would be windy -and it's almost always about 5 degrees cooler at the ocean than it is inland.

Point taken - but it's still damn hot down there in August.

Jeff_Mingay

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Re:What's next for The Ocean Course
« Reply #7 on: November 17, 2003, 05:05:07 PM »
Mike,

That '91 Ryder Cup was so successful, has there been talk about bringing that event back to The Ocean Course?
jeffmingay.com

Mike Vegis @ Kiawah

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Re:What's next for The Ocean Course
« Reply #8 on: November 17, 2003, 05:29:06 PM »
Mike,

That '91 Ryder Cup was so successful, has there been talk about bringing that event back to The Ocean Course?

That has been brought up a number with Roger and the answer is always the same... The PGA never returns to the same venue for a Ryder Cup.  

Lynn_Shackelford

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Re:What's next for The Ocean Course
« Reply #9 on: November 18, 2003, 12:33:36 AM »
Shivas I am sure this guy R. Warren is sad that he cannot defend Seven Bridges any longer.  I played there once in a tournament.  Weird course, isn't it a Fazio design?

I am impressed that they played Ocean at 7,400 yards.  Some of those greens are very small.
It must be kept in mind that the elusive charm of the game suffers as soon as any successful method of standardization is allowed to creep in.  A golf course should never pretend to be, nor is intended to be, an infallible tribunal.
               Tom Simpson

John Foley

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Re:What's next for The Ocean Course
« Reply #10 on: November 18, 2003, 08:54:02 AM »
Lynn,

I thought the same thing. When I was there a few years ago, I don't recall them being that small. I don't know if Mike can jump in here and comment.

One other note, it looked like they did not use the way back tee on #17 (at least on Sat when I watched). Any reason not too? I'd love to see the pro's try and play it 225 into a stiff wind to that green site.
Integrity in the moment of choice

Mike Vegis @ Kiawah

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Re:What's next for The Ocean Course
« Reply #11 on: November 18, 2003, 09:13:21 AM »
Lynn,

I thought the same thing. When I was there a few years ago, I don't recall them being that small. I don't know if Mike can jump in here and comment.

One other note, it looked like they did not use the way back tee on #17 (at least on Sat when I watched). Any reason not too? I'd love to see the pro's try and play it 225 into a stiff wind to that green site.

Used the same tees that were used during the Ryder Cup.  There were plenty of complaints about that hole as it was...

Most of the greens are actually quite large -- although some are narrow.
No. 1 - 27 yards front to back
No. 2 - 31 yards
No. 3 - 26 yards
No. 4 - 34 yards
No. 5 - 49 yards
No. 6 - 44 yards
No. 7 - 30 yards
No. 8 - 33 yards
No. 9 - 33 yards
No. 10 - 33 yards
No. 11 - 32 yards
No. 12 - 32 yards
No. 13 - 41 yards
No. 14 - 37 yards
No. 15 - 30 yards
No. 16 - 29 yards
No. 17 - 46 yards
No. 18 - 38 yards

Lou_Duran

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Re:What's next for The Ocean Course
« Reply #12 on: November 18, 2003, 09:23:06 AM »
A Major played at The Ocean Course with every stroke counting?  That I would love to see.  At 7,400 yards, with 11'-12' stimped greens and stiff winds would be great theater.  I just don't think that most of the pros would enjoy it, and perhaps the viewing audience wouldn't get it.

Mike Vegis-

Did they clean-up a bunch of the natives around the greens for the World Cup?  For some reason, the course looks much more menacing at ground level while playing than it does on television.  I know that Pete Dye likes to inspire fear, but generally, his courses play as tough as they look.  

Mike Vegis @ Kiawah

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Re:What's next for The Ocean Course
« Reply #13 on: November 18, 2003, 09:31:16 AM »
They cleaned up a lot of the bunkering, i.e. recaptured some of the original bunker lines that they course had.  As you can imagine, the course tends to walk around with blowing sand and such.  

Additionally, we thinned out a lot of the grasses to make them more natural.  If you look at the dunes along the ocean on the final stretch of holes (14-18), you'll see much thinner coverage of dunes grasses.  What had happened on the course is that the irrigation made the dune grasses grow in too thick.  So, we're going to keep the maintainance guys busy thining out the dunes grasses around the course from now on.  If you remember, on No. 5 (the par 3) you barely missed the green left and couldn't find your ball when you were here for the rater's cup.  Now, you would be able to at least find it and, possibly, get a club on it...

JohnV

Re:What's next for The Ocean Course
« Reply #14 on: November 18, 2003, 09:37:29 AM »
Different strokes for different folks I guess.   Paul Casey says
Quote
There is no luck out there.
and Rory Sabbatini says
Quote
It's a course that you can hit a good shot and get unfortunate out there, and you hit a bad shot and get lucky. I would say the chances of getting lucky out there aren't very good.

I liked Curtis Strange's comment on Friday when one of the players for Germany hit it into a bunker and his partner couldn't get it out.  Tirico said that they were unlucky and Curtis said something like, "I've never had bad luck on a golf course, I figure I hit there so it wasn't unlucky."

Jeff Goldman

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Re:What's next for The Ocean Course
« Reply #15 on: November 18, 2003, 11:01:04 AM »
Shivas, Seven Bridges is Nugent (I think Killian was involved as well), and at one time was at the top echelon of the pricing scale - $100.  Now, every 20 minutes they have a different rate.  The only worse ones he did were Arboretum (a shooting gallery) and a house course way west I can't remember.  The back nine is less bad, I think because it was an existing nine.

Anyway, I heard last spring that Whistling Straits was under big consideration for the 2011 US Open (maybe as the new midwest stop?), but they're surely waiting to see what happens at the PGA and if the turf holds up.  I'm not sure that Kiawah wouldn't make a better choice for  Pete Dye open.  Both can be lengthy, WS will be played at 7600 yards, with maybe 4 par-4s over 480 and 2 over 500.  Any views on which would be the better choice?  [OOPS! MY BAD. Didn't notice this was already raised.]

Jeff Goldman
« Last Edit: November 18, 2003, 11:50:16 AM by Jeff Goldman »
That was one hellacious beaver.

Kelly_Blake_Moran

Re:What's next for The Ocean Course
« Reply #16 on: November 18, 2003, 11:41:57 AM »
$250??!!  Jesus, I paid that for the Paris Hilton video, but I get to enjoy it multiple times! Can't imagine paying that for a one dayer.

ChipRoyce

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Re:What's next for The Ocean Course
« Reply #17 on: November 18, 2003, 03:30:44 PM »
Kelly -
great response.... glad to see that you're a purveyor of fine cinema as well.
BTW - if these folks are so rich, you'd think they'd have a cam with better night vision!?! sheeshh..
Great to meet you at NGLA... hope to catch you should you ever step foot in these parts of TX.
Chip

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