BURY GC - An under the radar MacKenzie delight!

[Sean_A]

I suspected the work was done by FH&B. On many Stockport greens it looks like the hand of FH&B as well. Although, a few of those greens have interesting wings which sort of flow away from the main push of the surfaces. I wonder if more of this type of green existed on Colt courses prior to green shrinkage?

Happy Hockey

[Thomas Dai]

Updated with the old pics now in colour courtesy of Thomas Dai! 

Dai's updated image of the 14th is all green! should the sky be more blue and the bunkers more 'sandy'

Conversion of old photos from b&w to colour is pretty much all about the quality of the original photo (unless you want to spend hours doing it and I'm not doing that!).
As to the sand, I suspect that the old photos may have been taken before completion as some of the bunkers have sand in them and some don't.
atb

[Ben Stephens]

Updated with the old pics now in colour courtesy of Thomas Dai! 

Dai's updated image of the 14th is all green! should the sky be more blue and the bunkers more 'sandy'

Conversion of old photos from b&w to colour is pretty much all about the quality of the original photo (unless you want to spend hours doing it and I'm not doing that!).
As to the sand, I suspect that the old photos may have been taken before completion as some of the bunkers have sand in them and some don't.
atb

Bingo re: sand - that is what I also suspected or they actually played with very few or bare sand with some grass through it.


If you can send the image to me I can use a quick Photoshop job to put the sand in plus make the clouds more blue.

[Duncan Cheslett]

I suspected the work was done by FH&B. On many Stockport greens it looks like the hand of FH&B as well. Although, a few of those greens have interesting wings which sort of flow away from the main push of the surfaces. I wonder if more of this type of green existed on Colt courses prior to green shrinkage?

Happy Hockey

Sean,

I can find no evidence that Franks Harris were involved at Stockport. Colt's extensive improvements to the course were completed in 1912/1913. In this 1913 interview with Claude Harris he says only that at that time he has done work as far north as Birmingham.


https://golfchronicle.wordpress.com/2019/05/30/claude-d-harris-maker-of-golf-courses/


This newspaper article from 1913 makes no mention of any contractor having been used.


https://documentcloud.adobe.com/link/track?uri=urn%3Aaaid%3Ascds%3AUS%3A4c25fa9a-0597-4659-8af7-82ab974afe66&fbclid=IwAR0Pj3aZG9Mfmv1Ld7Dgva4vdDgiIoBXkW0HP6oFP9XNNbc3ptgCXxcvF9g

[Duncan Cheslett]

I took advantage of being in the area yesterday to take a stroll around Bury to see what they'd been up to during the enforced winter "recess".


They've had the chainsaws out!


The 15th is a lovely risk/reward short par 4 which has long been compromised by tree growth obscuring any view of the green, No more!


Before


Hole#15a by Duncan Cheslett, on Flickr

After

Hole#15d by Duncan Cheslett, on Flickr

The club has recently appointed Gordon Irvine as their consultant agronomist and the tree work on 15 was one of his first recommendations. Another is to return the course to its original order of holes - starting with the current 4th and finishing on the current 3rd.  Presumably with a view to this a hideous wall of leylandii has been felled opening up an altogether better view down the 4th fairway from outside the Pro's shop and the practice putting green - which will make an excellent 1st tee, removing the blindness which spoils the hole from the current 4th tee.


From current 4th tee


 Hol

From potential new 1st tee

Hole#4d by Duncan Cheslett, on Flickr

I'm very encouraged by the initiative and drive being shown by the club in their ambition to return Bury to its moorland origins. They've sensibly picked a couple of "low hanging fruit" to start with to demonstrate to members the positive effects drastic tree felling can have on a golf course. From what I understand very little member resistance has been met with.

I can heartily recommend a visit to Bury.

[Tom_Doak]

Duncan:


I had missed this tour before but in looking through it now, I wondered why they didn't return to the original sequence, and thought there were many places where removing tree clutter would improve the beauty of the place as well as the turf.


Glad to hear they found someone who could just tell them that straight away, without need of pretending to know what Dr. MacKenzie was thinking!


I hope to see the course someday -- but of course there are still many such places.

[James Reader]

Well Duncan, that answers the question we were asking last summer as to whether the club perhaps didn’t own the land to the left of the 15th so wouldn’t be able to remove the trees.  Looks great.  Be good to get back there soon. 


Am I misremembering, or was there talk about them moving the clubhouse as well?

[Duncan Cheslett]

Duncan:


I had missed this tour before but in looking through it now, I wondered why they didn't return to the original sequence, and thought there were many places where removing tree clutter would improve the beauty of the place as well as the turf.


Glad to hear they found someone who could just tell them that straight away, without need of pretending to know what Dr. MacKenzie was thinking!


I hope to see the course someday -- but of course there are still many such places.

Tom,


I agree. In appointing agronomist/greenkeeper Gordon Irvine rather than an "architect" to advise them they have chosen someone who has no desire to place a personal stamp on the course other than improving the playing conditions and restoring the original moorland aspect as far as possible. I'm not sure much else needs to be done.


There is a lot to like about Bury. It is on a wonderful piece of golfing terrain and the turf is generally excellent.

[Clyde Johnson]

Duncan:


I had missed this tour before but in looking through it now, I wondered why they didn't return to the original sequence, and thought there were many places where removing tree clutter would improve the beauty of the place as well as the turf.


Glad to hear they found someone who could just tell them that straight away, without need of pretending to know what Dr. MacKenzie was thinking!


I hope to see the course someday -- but of course there are still many such places.

Tom,


I agree. In appointing agronomist/greenkeeper Gordon Irvine rather than an "architect" to advise them they have chosen someone who has no desire to place a personal stamp on the course other than improving the playing conditions and restoring the original moorland aspect as far as possible. I'm not sure much else needs to be done.


There is a lot to like about Bury. It is on a wonderful piece of golfing terrain and the turf is generally excellent.

Not all "architects" would look to put their own personal stamp on the course Duncan  .


In a brief email exchange last summer, I told the past greens chairman how good the course would be with just some good tree management and a little tweaking to the mowing lines. (It's the same with the vast majority of golf courses in the GB and I that have been doing too much work this past decade.) I'm glad they are listening to someone who is seemingly telling them the same. Bury is a pretty good course!

[Adam Lawrence]

[quote author=Clyde Johnson link=topic=67698.msg1671116#msg1671116 date=1616358022

Not all "architects" would look to put their own personal stamp on the course Duncan  .


Ah, I remember what Stoke Park told me six year ago when I queried why they had not hired an architect before committing to spending a million pounds rebuilding their bunkers:


"We have not engaged the services of an architect because modern architects tend to want to put their own personal stamp on the course – and we want to return to the original Colt style.

And then they allowed their course manager to rebuild the bunkers according to his own ideas, which looked nothing like Colt ever built. It's a funny old world...

[Duncan Cheslett]

Not all "architects" would look to put their own personal stamp on the course Duncan    .

You’re quite right, of course.
But some would.

Hence my careful use of inverted commas. 😉

[Neil_Crafter]

Nice tour thanks Duncan, nice to see some on-ground photos of the course today.