The ridiculous cost of irrigation

[Craig Moore]

Irrigation systems are site specific just as maintenance practices are ([size=78%]You obviously will be spending more in arid climates than you would in humid climates). [/size]
I have to replace an aging system on one of our course in the coming years.  We have asbestos main lines from the early 60’s and PVC laterals/hydraulic heads/controls from the early 80’s.  The coverage is plenty for us and I have zero intention of adding any more heads (less than 400) than We have in the ground right now.  Our issue is replacement parts on the hydraulic controls and hazardous repairs when we have a leak; we could go with a premium Cadillac system but the basic Chevy Is all we need in our climate and with our maintenance standards.  I’m only concerned with Minimally irrigating the Greens, tees, fairways and approaches; less water on the rough the better to reduce mowing costs.  Single head control, a computer to Run the system And create my own site specific programs/run times plus the ability to turn it on and off with my phone is the upgrades I am after.... why? It will save me loads of time that I can spend making other improvements on The course over how I have to manage the existing system right now. 
We could easily spend Over $2 million on a new system but that will only cost the club more money in the future to maintain the system and more money to mow grass in the rough.... both are not desirable. 
Making Quality golf affordable to as many as We can should be a priority..... you do that by not buying what you don’t need. 

[Anthony_Nysse]

Mike,
I just texted a super who I know has a fancy system.  He said it is amazing what can be done but he still likes to hand water.  Sometimes it is hard to ever change.  But who would have ever thought your refrigerator could order groceries for you and your car would text you that it needs an oil change after it drove you to work.  AI is just getting started and one day we will have smart golf courses just like we have smart phones.  Like it or not, we are not far away, at least for some courses.

Mark,
   Superintendents do have $2-3m+ available at their finger tips. We have GPS technology available, we have soil sensors available to identify nutrient deficiencies, we have moisture meters that can show us % of moisture content in a green....there is still a "rub of the green" that requires a human to do the job the right way-with a hose. I like to say "your eyes don't lie."


At the end of the day, most Superintendents are a form of farmers. Farmers have tremendous amounts of technology at their finger tips. Their tractors cost over $500k, yet they still be to be present each & every day to monitor, follow up, confirm & operate these tools. Does it make their jobs easier? Sure thing. Does it make us adjust our practices? 100%. Does it mean that we completely go away from a proven, successful way to manage turf? Absolutely not. Keep in mind, handwatering is still THE SINGLE best way to spot water & save water. Most irrigation heads put out 60-70gal/min.

[Mike_Young]

Irrigation systems are site specific just as maintenance practices are ([size=78%]You obviously will be spending more in arid climates than you would in humid climates). [/size]
I have to replace an aging system on one of our course in the coming years.  We have asbestos main lines from the early 60’s and PVC laterals/hydraulic heads/controls from the early 80’s.  The coverage is plenty for us and I have zero intention of adding any more heads (less than 400) than We have in the ground right now.  Our issue is replacement parts on the hydraulic controls and hazardous repairs when we have a leak; we could go with a premium Cadillac system but the basic Chevy Is all we need in our climate and with our maintenance standards.  I’m only concerned with Minimally irrigating the Greens, tees, fairways and approaches; less water on the rough the better to reduce mowing costs.  Single head control, a computer to Run the system And create my own site specific programs/run times plus the ability to turn it on and off with my phone is the upgrades I am after.... why? It will save me loads of time that I can spend making other improvements on The course over how I have to manage the existing system right now. 
We could easily spend Over $2 million on a new system but that will only cost the club more money in the future to maintain the system and more money to mow grass in the rough.... both are not desirable. 
Making Quality golf affordable to as many as We can should be a priority..... you do that by not buying what you don’t need.

Craig,A lot of places are in the same boat....good post...

[Mike_Young]

Mike,
I just texted a super who I know has a fancy system.  He said it is amazing what can be done but he still likes to hand water.  Sometimes it is hard to ever change.  But who would have ever thought your refrigerator could order groceries for you and your car would text you that it needs an oil change after it drove you to work.  AI is just getting started and one day we will have smart golf courses just like we have smart phones.  Like it or not, we are not far away, at least for some courses.

Mark,
   Superintendents do have $2-3m+ available at their finger tips. We have GPS technology available, we have soil sensors available to identify nutrient deficiencies, we have moisture meters that can show us % of moisture content in a green....there is still a "rub of the green" that requires a human to do the job the right way-with a hose. I like to say "your eyes don't lie."


At the end of the day, most Superintendents are a form of farmers. Farmers have tremendous amounts of technology at their finger tips. Their tractors cost over $500k, yet they still be to be present each & every day to monitor, follow up, confirm & operate these tools. Does it make their jobs easier? Sure thing. Does it make us adjust our practices? 100%. Does it mean that we completely go away from a proven, successful way to manage turf? Absolutely not. Keep in mind, handwatering is still THE SINGLE best way to spot water & save water. Most irrigation heads put out 60-70gal/min.

It was at a classic course hosting a major where the supt told me a few years ago that "the better and more state of the art my irrigation, the more likely I can afford to "handwater" and he did...almost everything...and he's right.  That Boeing 757 will fly itself but when the geese get in the engine and you got to land in a river in NYC, it's nice to know that plane can be "handwatered"

[Tom Bacsanyi]

Irrigation systems are site specific just as maintenance practices are ([size=78%]You obviously will be spending more in arid climates than you would in humid climates). [/size]
I have to replace an aging system on one of our course in the coming years.  We have asbestos main lines from the early 60’s and PVC laterals/hydraulic heads/controls from the early 80’s.  The coverage is plenty for us and I have zero intention of adding any more heads (less than 400) than We have in the ground right now.  Our issue is replacement parts on the hydraulic controls and hazardous repairs when we have a leak; we could go with a premium Cadillac system but the basic Chevy Is all we need in our climate and with our maintenance standards.  I’m only concerned with Minimally irrigating the Greens, tees, fairways and approaches; less water on the rough the better to reduce mowing costs.  Single head control, a computer to Run the system And create my own site specific programs/run times plus the ability to turn it on and off with my phone is the upgrades I am after.... why? It will save me loads of time that I can spend making other improvements on The course over how I have to manage the existing system right now. 
We could easily spend Over $2 million on a new system but that will only cost the club more money in the future to maintain the system and more money to mow grass in the rough.... both are not desirable. 
Making Quality golf affordable to as many as We can should be a priority..... you do that by not buying what you don’t need.

Hi Craig, I love the "rough is on it's own" philosophy in temperate climates. I wish more clubs in such areas would do this, as then more resources could be allocated to the closely mown areas. I wish we could let the rough areas be on their own here in CO, but sadly they'd be dirt in a few days come summer, so we have to irrigate wall-to-wall.


I assume you are talking about your "old" course, what kind of system does the "new" course have? Do you have HDPE or PVC on the "new"?

[David_Tepper]

Timely article:

https://www.golfcoursearchitecture.net/content/the-audit-comes-first

[Kalen Braley]

"Fair point but golf, like many other outdoor sports and pastimes, is essentially a seasonal game both in terms of playing it and the playing surface, something that doesn't seem to be as appreciated by golfers as it once was."

"Golf belongs in regions that can support golf courses in a sustainable manner. Regions with very low rainfall have no right to expect to have golf courses which divert water from more important uses."

Agree 100%...

Mike,

So in your opinion, out here in the West where rainfall is scarce for 6 months of the year and temps are hot, (PNW excluded) are you saying those courses shouldn't exist?

Basically that's everything in California, Nevada, Utah, Arizona, New Mexico, Idaho, Wyoming... all gone?  Even courses like Ballyneal, Sand Hills, Dismal all gone as well?

[Anthony_Nysse]

"Fair point but golf, like many other outdoor sports and pastimes, is essentially a seasonal game both in terms of playing it and the playing surface, something that doesn't seem to be as appreciated by golfers as it once was."

"Golf belongs in regions that can support golf courses in a sustainable manner. Regions with very low rainfall have no right to expect to have golf courses which divert water from more important uses."

Agree 100%...

It hasnt been mentioned yet, but certainly needs to be-


Many courses now in FL, AZ, NM, NV, & CA use reclaim water to irrigation. This takes a massive burden off cities to find a use for it. This is allows for courses to be in areas where they should not be.


Mike,

So in your opinion, out here in the West where rainfall is scarce for 6 months of the year and temps are hot, (PNW excluded) are you saying those courses shouldn't exist?

Basically that's everything in California, Nevada, Utah, Arizona, New Mexico, Idaho, Wyoming... all gone?  Even courses like Ballyneal, Sand Hills, Dismal all gone as well?

[Lou_Duran]

Tony,


I am having a hard time following you through FL!  It has been a while since I communicated with your head pro, but one of these days I will take him up on his invitation to play the course.


Are you saying that the use of reclaimed for irrigating golf courses benefits the seller, usually a municipal or public entity?  I've heard this many times including recently while touring the new PGA courses where they are committed to use millions of gallons of reclaimed water on average daily (the number escapes me, but does 3 million sound about right?).  I don't know how this water is recycled back (the benefit to the city other than the price), but it is of interest.


Golf is a big world.  If members/payers of green fees are willing to support a course with a $5 Million irrigation system, all the more power to them.  Why those driving entry level Hyundais would be concerned about Tesla or Bentley drivers is discouraging.  If nothing else, in the era of free money and stimulus, that $5 Million system could very well be employing extra makers and installers for months, and, according to some here, several additional maintenance employees ongoing.  What could be more stimulative than people able and willing to take their own money from under their mattresses and spend it freely?     

[Anthony_Nysse]

Tony,


I am having a hard time following you through FL!  It has been a while since I communicated with your head pro, but one of these days I will take him up on his invitation to play the course.


Are you saying that the use of reclaimed for irrigating golf courses benefits the seller, usually a municipal or public entity?  I've heard this many times including recently while touring the new PGA courses where they are committed to use millions of gallons of reclaimed water on average daily (the number escapes me, but does 3 million sound about right?).  I don't know how this water is recycled back (the benefit to the city other than the price), but it is of interest.


Golf is a big world.  If members/payers of green fees are willing to support a course with a $5 Million irrigation system, all the more power to them.  Why those driving entry level Hyundais would be concerned about Tesla or Bentley drivers is discouraging.  If nothing else, in the era of free money and stimulus, that $5 Million system could very well be employing extra makers and installers for months, and, according to some here, several additional maintenance employees ongoing.  What could be more stimulative than people able and willing to take their own money from under their mattresses and spend it freely?     

Yure welcome ehre anytime, Lou!


Yes, 2 previous places I have worked utilized reclaim water via the city; Long Cove & Pine Tree. Both courses had a minimum average they needed to use daily according to their contract/agreement with the city.  Those numbers were tracked daily. 400,000gals/ day average seem to ring a bell with Long Cove. In fact, Delray Beach had an agreement with both courses at Quail Ridge, 3 courses at Hunter Run, Delray Dunes, CC of FL & Pine Tree regarding reclaim water. The listed courses needed to absorb 6 million gallons a day, average. That sounds right.

[Tom_Doak]

Tony:


So did Long Cove overseed in the winter because they needed to use the water?


I remember at the beginning they did not overseed.  The centipede roughs vs. bermuda fairways were a wild brown/tan contrast.

[Mike_Young]

It hasnt been mentioned yet, but certainly needs to be-


Many courses now in FL, AZ, NM, NV, & CA use reclaim water to irrigation. This takes a massive burden off cities to find a use for it. This is allows for courses to be in areas where they should not be.


Mike,

So in your opinion, out here in the West where rainfall is scarce for 6 months of the year and temps are hot, (PNW excluded) are you saying those courses shouldn't exist?

Basically that's everything in California, Nevada, Utah, Arizona, New Mexico, Idaho, Wyoming... all gone?  Even courses like Ballyneal, Sand Hills, Dismal all gone as well?

Kalen,I'm not saying that at all.  I'm saying it has to be viable.  For example, if a developer builds a course where he can sell homes and during the "build up" period when homes are selling he is paying for water and absorbing it into the RE budget instead of the golf then perhaps he knew it was never viable and having to purchase water in the future could close it.  But if the members/players were more understanding of the water then perhaps just greens and tees would get them thru a period. 
As Tony says reclaimed water is often distributed around courses either from the homes themselves or from other industry or needs of the community.  EXAMPLE I did a course in Hartwell, Ga.  , Cateechee, where we agreed to spray up to 1.2 million gallons per day.  In that area the regulations only allow .5 inches of water per acre per day for 5 days in a 7 day period. And the land being sprayed had to be under 35% slope  Thus that determined how much land was needed.    We had the irrigation designed into surrounding woods whereby we could spray up to the required amount of water ,even when it had rained and not affect the golf.  The city paid for the system.. Hell, it won  a couple of the Save The whale awards ( and we had no whales) the Environmental Stewardship award and was one of the souped up Audubon Certified award places and it allowed more industry to move to town due to increased capacity..  NOW, WHAT WASN'T DONE...in some of the cities and towns today there are entities, (developers and industry) that offer to purchase reclaimed water from the cities and cities now know they can sell that reclaimed water.  Golf course now have to make sure they are being guaranteed such water when they  begin.  Otherwise you can loose it or have to bid on it...   oh well...

[Anthony_Nysse]

Tony:


So did Long Cove overseed in the winter because they needed to use the water?


I remember at the beginning they did not overseed.  The centipede roughs vs. bermuda fairways were a wild brown/tan contrast.

Tom,
  What I know is they seeded everything for 6-8 years in the late 1990s to early 2000s. After the renovation in 2002, they just did fairways for 2-3 years. When I started working there, the fwys were seeded and then we did not seed for 4 years. Then fairways were seeded until the renovation in 2018. They are not overseeing fairways now. The entire time, they were seeding tees and greens, though. I know they still use reclaim, I’m just not sure what they are required to use as it’s been 12 years since I was there.

[jeffwarne]

Tony:


So did Long Cove overseed in the winter because they needed to use the water?


I remember at the beginning they did not overseed.  The centipede roughs vs. bermuda fairways were a wild brown/tan contrast.

Tom,
They did not overseed every year in my time there.88-91. And I was generally back for a round the next 10-12 years.
Seemed more of a reaction to the previous year's feedback-as there are drawbacks to both.(and vocal critics of both)

[Steve Lang]

   Mike Young,  I've played Cateechee and remember seeing the irrigation going on there.  The city changed their waste water permit from being a direct discharger into Cedar Creek to being "land application" at the golf course.  That reduced their liability for violating their discharge permit conditions and impacting use designations for the water body.  A good incentive!

[Mark_Fine]

LOL - Funny how some threads are timely.  I just had a member of a club call me about two hours ago.  He has a large parcel of land behind his home and wants to build three regulation golf holes on it.  One of the big questions is how do we handle irrigation.  Is there a source of water - a lake, city water, well water??  This will also determine what we can and can’t design (does he want real greens and all the maintenance or artificial greens and tees)?  Once again irrigation and the challenges and costs associated with it will play a big role.  Going to look at the site next week.

[Mike_Young]

  Mike Young,  I've played Cateechee and remember seeing the irrigation going on there.  The city changed their waste water permit from being a direct discharger into Cedar Creek to being "land application" at the golf course.  That reduced their liability for violating their discharge permit conditions and impacting use designations for the water body.  A good incentive!

Yep.  I don't recall exact amount of fines but they were under mandate and being fined by the EPD each month around $20,000.  Once completed the creek was clean and the Tenneco shock absorber plant, which was the original problem could continue.