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Troy Miller

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Charleston Municipal
« on: December 01, 2020, 12:11:55 PM »
Forgive me if I haven’t provide a proper introduction as a newbie to the GCA site - as I’ve followed along nearly 18 years, I feel like I know many of you well. 


I am a Golf Course Architect, formerly with Landmark Land Co. (Oak Tree, PGA West, Kiawah Island, etc.) and have been working on some projects over the course of the last decade on my own as Miller Golf Design.


With Charleston Municipal opening next week, I wanted to share a good drone video that I just came across today (credit to The Peaceful Golfer) of the back nine. The bunker names are mislabeled in a couple places but his drone work is pretty great.


As a native Charlestonian that grew up at Muni, it has been a special project to work on, and I’m excited to see it open and hope that if any of you find yourself in Charleston you’ll come see it, and let me know when you are coming; I’d enjoy meeting you.


https://youtu.be/7SBBJar58qc
« Last Edit: December 03, 2020, 10:49:45 PM by Troy Miller »

Paul Carey

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Re: Charleston Municipal
« Reply #1 on: December 01, 2020, 12:20:02 PM »
That looks great.  Quite an upgrade on the design and I assume a big part of the project was drainage.  It has to be one of the worst sites for golf (drainage) you have ever worked.  Congratulations.

Troy Miller

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Charleston Municipal
« Reply #2 on: December 01, 2020, 01:56:46 PM »
Thanks, Paul. I’ve been telling people they’ll no longer have to check the tide charts before they make a tee time.


Those drainage issues were largely addressed by elevating those holes along the River (13, 15 and 16), the byproduct of which is a 6 acre restored wetland and pond, and some big views of the Stono that had been lost to some scrubby growth over the years.  Telling the Raynor story/style in the lowcountry, where his work fits so well, is a lot of fun.

Carl Rogers

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Re: Charleston Municipal
« Reply #3 on: December 01, 2020, 03:00:38 PM »
When Covid is and traveling again, Charleston Muni is on the list.
I decline to accept the end of man. ... William Faulkner

Mike Sweeney

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Re: Charleston Municipal
« Reply #4 on: December 01, 2020, 04:52:32 PM »
Fantastic, and congrats. I got there once late in the day and just hit a few balls. It's always easy to find an excuse to visit Charleston, so this really is on the list to see.


Thanks for posting.
"One of the saddest lessons of history is this: If we’ve been bamboozled long enough, we tend to reject any evidence of the bamboozle. We’re no longer interested in finding out the truth. The bamboozle has captured us."

Dr. Carl Sagan, The Demon-Haunted World: Science as a Candle in the Dark

PCCraig

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Charleston Municipal
« Reply #5 on: December 01, 2020, 05:11:06 PM »
Hi Troy -


I've spent quite a bit of time in Charleston and nearby Kiawah Island with my in-laws. The Muni has long been a favorite place of mine. It was always pretty run down conditioning wise, but the back nine had incredible views and some holes like the 12th were just plain awesome. Not to mention the clubhouse which is absolutely perfect.


I've always recommended the Muni to folks visiting Charleston as a fun, low cost, round of golf and more importantly, experience. I forget the night of the week now, but is it Monday's where they have the skins game and a steak dinner?


Admittedly, I wasn't super pumped with the original plans for the renovation when I first saw them. However the aerials look really great. Although it looks like you took down the cool old ghost tree along the lake on 12?!


There is certainly a lot more water on the course now (which makes sense given the need of drainage). Where you able to remove some of the overgrowth of trees on the interior of the course? Would be great to open up some of those views of the water into the course a bit.


Thanks for posting.
H.P.S.

Paul Carey

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Charleston Municipal
« Reply #6 on: December 01, 2020, 05:44:51 PM »
Hi Troy -


I've spent quite a bit of time in Charleston and nearby Kiawah Island with my in-laws. The Muni has long been a favorite place of mine. It was always pretty run down conditioning wise, but the back nine had incredible views and some holes like the 12th were just plain awesome. Not to mention the clubhouse which is absolutely perfect.


I've always recommended the Muni to folks visiting Charleston as a fun, low cost, round of golf and more importantly, experience. I forget the night of the week now, but is it Monday's where they have the skins game and a steak dinner?


Admittedly, I wasn't super pumped with the original plans for the renovation when I first saw them. However the aerials look really great. Although it looks like you took down the cool old ghost tree along the lake on 12?!


There is certainly a lot more water on the course now (which makes sense given the need of drainage). Where you able to remove some of the overgrowth of trees on the interior of the course? Would be great to open up some of those views of the water into the course a bit.


Thanks for posting.


The steak scramble is on Monday.  I agree on the original plans.What you you built, Troy, looks much better than the original plans.  I guess you were downplaying it at that time but it looks like you delivered something much cooler.

Troy Miller

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Charleston Municipal
« Reply #7 on: December 01, 2020, 05:58:28 PM »

The ghost tree on No. 12 remains - it was an important element to keep despite being predictably a magnet for a dozer...

I think there was some confusion on here when the project was first announced between Muni and my next project, Patriots Point, which is slated to get a full redesign and become an upscale resort course. 

The Muni hasn't lost any of its old character or charm, or affordability, its still 20 bucks for city residents to play, and yes, the Monday night blitz will continue on with its steak dinner and an occasional sighting of a tour player, Bill Murray, or Hall of Fame QBs. 


The 11th may be the only Redan in the world you can play in blue jeans.


As for additional hazards - the only hole in which a new hazard was introduced during the renovation was the Par 5 15th, where a large floodplain/salt flat was turned into a pond off the tee to generate material and an elevate the adjacent fairways.  The 12th was always bordered by a large wetland with significant growth that impeded the line of play, the new pond provides a cleaner line for the hazard along line of play. In fact, there were two hazards removed during this project, the pond on the outside of the dogleg on No. 1 and the ditch to the left of No. 2, effectively leaving it as a net loss of one "hazard shot". I'm interested to see how the regulars adjust to the new course; I feel certain it will produce some better putters. 
« Last Edit: December 01, 2020, 06:17:36 PM by Troy Miller »

archie_struthers

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Charleston Municipal
« Reply #8 on: December 01, 2020, 06:56:29 PM »
 8)




Looks like another wonderful place to visit in the spring if COVID has left us ....perhaps a road trip with an obligatory MONDAY at Charleston Muni!   Golf then steaks sounds like a winner.

Mike Feeney

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Charleston Municipal
« Reply #9 on: December 01, 2020, 07:03:12 PM »
Congrats Troy!
Based upon your hole drawings, which I loved, it sounds like you had access to the original drawings/sketches.
Like you, I spent my childhood on a muni, and recognize the joy you must feel in making it better than ever.  Good for you to donate all your time & expertise to fund raising and guiding design hand.

Won't miss it on my next pass through the low country.

Troy Miller

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Charleston Municipal
« Reply #10 on: December 01, 2020, 08:39:58 PM »
Thanks, Mike - the history of the course is really interesting - it opened in 1929 with no bunkers - all of the bunkers and hazards were added later, over time, by the long time golf pro, Johnny Adams.


While there is no tie to Raynor, the laborers who built it were the same that built Country Club of Charleston and Yeamans in the two years prior to Muni. As the only examples of golf in the Lowcountry at the time, there were certainly some similarities, and while the greens had shrunk down to tiny satellite dishes, the original rectangular pads still existed on many holes, and I often told people if squinted a little, you could start to see the Raynor influence coming out.


Being able to provide 12 template holes (CCC has 11 and YHC has 13) to the general golf public - to which access to this style of architecture is largely non-existent on a national level, I hope will add voices to the conversations so familiar among the GCA group.


Socially, it has played a large role in golf in SC - as the first Municipal course in the state, and the first course in SC to integrate.


This ‘Munisance’ we find ourselves in is my favorite movement in golf during the course of my life and career.  I’m fortunate to have gone to school with Will Smith and Mike McCartin and their work with The National Links Trust will surely take this movement to another level.
« Last Edit: December 01, 2020, 08:52:00 PM by Troy Miller »

Rob Marshall

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Charleston Municipal
« Reply #11 on: December 01, 2020, 09:15:37 PM »
That’s Troy, I played the Muni last year the Monday after Thanksgiving. My sister and son live in Charleston. Looking forward to playing there next Thanksgiving.
If life gives you limes, make margaritas.” Jimmy Buffett

Josh Bills

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Charleston Municipal
« Reply #12 on: December 01, 2020, 09:42:31 PM »
Loved my one and only play there in March 2019.  My buddy and I wanted to play golf in the area, but not spend a fortune.  We showed up and paid what felt like nothing and the guy in the pro shop told us we could play all day.  We played plenty until my buddy's wife called advising us his daughter cracked her teeth at the pool, golf was over for the day.  The course was lovely, though the drives on the main road holes felt fraught with peril.

I couldn't tell you the hole numbers, but it was a fun course.  I look forward to my return someday and seeing the changes, looks great Troy.



 














[img wdith=790]https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50669732448_b9b4bd40f1_o.jpg[/img]




Brian Ross

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Charleston Municipal
« Reply #13 on: December 01, 2020, 09:52:04 PM »
I played Muni several times when I lived in Charleston from 2011-2013. I look forward to seeing the changes the next time I make it back down there. Congratulations, Troy!
Time is but the stream I go a-fishing in.

http://www.rossgolfarchitects.com

Amol Yajnik

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Charleston Municipal
« Reply #14 on: December 02, 2020, 09:40:10 PM »
I played the Muni a bunch when I lived in CHS from 2001-2008.  Congrats Troy to you and your entire team on this project.  I can't wait to get back down there to have another crack at that course.

PCCraig

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Charleston Municipal
« Reply #15 on: December 06, 2020, 09:02:35 PM »
Jon Cavalier posted some ground level photos of the course on Twitter yesterday that were fantastic. Maybe he would be nice enough to post a few on here, if not check them out on his handle. Cool stuff.
H.P.S.

MCirba

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Charleston Municipal
« Reply #16 on: December 06, 2020, 10:10:23 PM »
Munissance.

I sort of like the sound of that.
"Persistence and determination alone are omnipotent" - Calvin Coolidge

https://cobbscreek.org/

John Mayhugh

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Charleston Municipal
« Reply #17 on: December 08, 2020, 07:46:51 AM »
I was down in Charleston in late October and took a quick look around prior to playing another area course. I had not seen the previous version of the Muni, but thought Troy's work looked really interesting. The first nine looked ready to play (if no carts) and the back seemed to be growing in slowly where the most fairway elevating had been done.

Some really good looking green complexes. I will definitely be back to play when it's open.

A few pictures.

IMG_0224 by john mayhugh, on Flickr

IMG_0228 by john mayhugh, on Flickr

IMG_0229 by john mayhugh, on Flickr

IMG_0231 by john mayhugh, on Flickr

IMG_0233 by john mayhugh, on Flickr

IMG_0236 by john mayhugh, on Flickr

IMG_0243 by john mayhugh, on Flickr

IMG_0253 by john mayhugh, on Flickr

IMG_0254 by john mayhugh, on Flickr

IMG_0256 by john mayhugh, on Flickr

IMG_0258 by john mayhugh, on Flickr

IMG_0260 by john mayhugh, on Flickr


Scott Senior

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Charleston Municipal
« Reply #18 on: December 08, 2020, 12:11:06 PM »
Looks great! It's on my list for '21 (I hope!!)

PCCraig

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Re: Charleston Municipal
« Reply #19 on: December 08, 2020, 05:11:01 PM »
Looks really cool, thanks for posting John. Sounds like you had a nice trip to Chuck Town!
H.P.S.

John Mayhugh

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Charleston Municipal
« Reply #20 on: December 09, 2020, 07:12:17 AM »
Looks really cool, thanks for posting John. Sounds like you had a nice trip to Chuck Town!
Pat,
It was a short one. Have a good friend that lives in Hanahan and don't get down there nearly often enough.

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