Green Necks

[Ira Fishman]

We have a new Superintendent who is doing a terrific job. He has gotten the course firm and fast given it is built on clay. The one change I would like to see him try is to widen the necks into the greens. The greens have interesting slope and/or contour that would make more ground game options fun. I am assuming that he is trying to preempt concerns about balls running into green side bunkers. Can anyone point me to parkland courses that have eliminated or at least decreased the rough around green side bunkers and thereby widened the necks?



Thanks.


Ira

[Jeff_Brauer]

Ira,


I could probably give you dozens of examples, based on just my limited playing experience. 


One of my bugaboos, when supers end the fw cut because they don't want to (or have the mower to) mow the approach area up to the green, leaving it as rough and eliminating the ground game.  And others use the collar or fringe mower and make one pass out and back in and leave it about 2 mowing passes, about10 feet wide, rather than mow them all the way out the the bunkers (perhaps leaving one strip of rough, if that is their style).


Hard to believe it could save that much mowing, and even if it does, that this critical area would be the place to skimp.  Probably one of the worst ways an indifferent (or just understaffed, to be charitable) super has a negative impact on design intent.  Not to change the intent of your thread, but others are letting greens shrink, simplifying bunker shape (although this is aesthetic, not playability).  Could probably think of others if I tried.

[Tyler Kearns]

Ira,


Our club has eliminated the necks leading into greens this year.  We are also situated on heavy clay.  Fairway mowing lines now run directly into green side bunkers - creating a much wider fairway approach for balls to run onto green.


Tyler

[PCCraig]

Ira -


Check out aerial photos of Town & Country Club in St. Paul, first from the 90's and then from today.


In the 1980's there was a "good" player who was head of the Green Committee and he insisted the Super narrow all of the fairway approaches to the greens to a matter of FEET so that it would require an aerial shot into the green. Little necks/walking paths. Why? Because his winter club in Palm Springs had them and he thought it would be a good look.   


A handful of years ago the Super at T&C widened the approach to the 300-yard long 1st hole. Ladies could never find a way to hit the green as their long irons or woods would roll and stop in the rough short of the hole. They restored the approach and all the ladies were literally hugging the Super thanking him as they could actually roll the ball onto the green in regulation. The light bulb went off and the rest of the approaches were restored in time. 

[John Emerson]

It’s not just about mowing the grass shorter, or eliminating rough.  If you want these clay soils firm they have to be religiously top dressed, And the thatch managed as well.  If you decide to commit to this then you will see a much bigger dedication of labor and materials.  If money and labor isn’t a problem I say go for it, but if the grounds staff is just kinda gettin by then this probably isn’t a good viable long term idea.  Not to mention, many of these approaches may need to be walk mowed.

[Ira Fishman]

Ira,


Our club has eliminated the necks leading into greens this year.  We are also situated on heavy clay.  Fairway mowing lines now run directly into green side bunkers - creating a much wider fairway approach for balls to run onto green.


Tyler

Tyler, what has been the reaction among the members? Thanks.

[Ian Mackenzie]

We have a new Superintendent who is doing a terrific job. He has gotten the course firm and fast given it is built on clay. The one change I would like to see him try is to widen the necks into the greens. The greens have interesting slope and/or contour that would make more ground game options fun. I am assuming that he is trying to preempt concerns about balls running into green side bunkers. Can anyone point me to parkland courses that have eliminated or at least decreased the rough around green side bunkers and thereby widened the necks?



Thanks.


Ira

we did it in Chicago over the last 7 years.
The goal was for mis-hit shots to GO into greenside bunkers...;-)

[Tom Bacsanyi]

It’s not just about mowing the grass shorter, or eliminating rough.  If you want these clay soils firm they have to be religiously top dressed, And the thatch managed as well.  If you decide to commit to this then you will see a much bigger dedication of labor and materials.  If money and labor isn’t a problem I say go for it, but if the grounds staff is just kinda gettin by then this probably isn’t a good viable long term idea.  Not to mention, many of these approaches may need to be walk mowed.

^^^This.  Plus i'll add hand watering or complex auto irrigation setups, and a precise fertility program similar to the greens. These areas are consistently the hardest areas to get right. There are lots of courses with great greens, nice fairways, etc. etc. but with approaches/aprons/necks that could be better.

[Thomas Dai]

The point is often made that fairway bunkers should be within the fairway not at the edge or within the rough. Apply this approach to greenside bunkering and it ought to take care of the thin green neck issue.
Atb

[Tyler Kearns]

Ira,


Our club has eliminated the necks leading into greens this year.  We are also situated on heavy clay.  Fairway mowing lines now run directly into green side bunkers - creating a much wider fairway approach for balls to run onto green.


Tyler

Tyler, what has been the reaction among the members? Thanks.

Ira,


From people who have approached me (I am the green chairman), it has been positive - especially because many of these areas incorporate slopes from green side bunkers that can funnel balls onto the green.


Tyler