The Future of Royal Dornoch--a Golf Club Atlas Survey

[Jon Wiggett]

Jon


I'm assuming they have just renewed the ground lease for a lengthy period ? If so, depending on how it's worded, they could come to regret the index linked rent review.


So is the new clubhouse definitely going ahead ? Sorry, if I missed the news but I wasn't aware it had been settled.


Niall

Niall,


I too had completely missed this. I too wonder if the effect of index linking has been thought through completely especially as the 5 year reviews are only gong to push the price in one direction.


On the flipside I wonder if the council have realised how much the new clubhouse will impose itself on the foreshore skyline. Up until now no building has been allowed to be built outside the edge of the village in that direction but the new clubhouse will make a massive visual impact on the whole beachfront.


Tom,


back in the 80's most of the bigger club's clubhouses had their own character but I am afraid most now have a uniform, cooperate golf look. The courses have long gone in that direction and though Dornoch is considered to be in the top 10 in the world it is not as good a links golfing experience as it was 30 years ago. The biggest loser however has to be TOC which is a shadow of the course it used to be. All in the name of chasing the $


Jon

[Mike Leveille]

Jon:


Not having had the pleasure of playing RD prior to 2001, I am curious as to your thinking as to what made RD a better links golf experience 30 years ago. 


Mike

[Niall C]

Jon


With any legal agreement all will depend on the specific wording. RPI/CPI indexed rent reviews are generally used when it is either difficult to determine a market value or where it wouldn't be appropriate. The purpose of using them is that the rent at review is generally the same value as that originally agreed taking into account inflation. These clauses used to be fairly straight forward but I've recently come across an example being passed off by solicitors as being "standard" that "compounds" increases. On a 99 year lease with 5 yearly reviews that could make a huge difference.


Anyway, I'm sure both the club and the Council have taken professional advice.


Niall 

[Jon Wiggett]

Jon


With any legal agreement all will depend on the specific wording. RPI/CPI indexed rent reviews are generally used when it is either difficult to determine a market value or where it wouldn't be appropriate. The purpose of using them is that the rent at review is generally the same value as that originally agreed taking into account inflation. These clauses used to be fairly straight forward but I've recently come across an example being passed off by solicitors as being "standard" that "compounds" increases. On a 99 year lease with 5 yearly reviews that could make a huge difference.


Anyway, I'm sure both the club and the Council have taken professional advice.


Niall

Jon


I'm assuming they have just renewed the ground lease for a lengthy period ? If so, depending on how it's worded, they could come to regret the index linked rent review.

Niall

Thanks for that Niall  I have to remember before making a reply to you in the future .


Mike,


Generally the course has lost a lack of definition leading to a uniformed narrowing of the playing corridor. The fairways are cut much lower than before meaning the elimination of sloping lies on most of the bumps and lumps. Also the greens are receptive to trajectory rather than spin.


Don't get me wrong, the course is a good links course and certainly would not be as high up the rankings if it were as it used to be but for an example of classical links golf Brora is the better course in my book.


Jon

[David_Tepper]

"On the flipside I wonder if the council have realised how much the new clubhouse will impose itself on the foreshore skyline. Up until now no building has been allowed to be built outside the edge of the village in that direction but the new clubhouse will make a massive visual impact on the whole beachfront."

Jon -

I don't think moving the clubhouse to the proposed location (perhaps 30-40 yards from its present location) will have the "massive visual impact" you imagine. I doubt very much if even the top of the new clubhouse will be visible to people standing on the beach.My guess is one would have to go at least 100 yards or more out into the Firth before the new clubhouse would be visible.

But we will find out soon enough.

DT

[James Brown]

I am a second year Dornoch overseas U.S. member and the new clubhouse design has grown on me.  I think it will end up being just fine.  Great clubs evolve. 

[Jon Wiggett]

DT,


at the moment you have an homogeneous edge to the village with no building sticking out beyond it. If the new clubhouse is going to occupy the site of the current 18th green it will be well over 100 yards beyond this line (not the 30-40 which would be the first tee) as a stand alone building on a highpoint so it seems obvious to me it is going to impact the skyline of the beachfront.


As you say, time will tell.

[David_Tepper]

Jon -

The site for the new clubhouse is not the current 18th green. The site is the area between the back half of the current practice putting green and the parking lot, pretty much next to where the starter's hut is now located.

The forward half of the putting green has already been extended towards the helicopter pad.

I doubt the new clubhouse will be visible to anyone standing on the 16th tee. 

DT

[Jon Wiggett]

Jon -

The site for the new clubhouse is not the current 18th green. The site is the area between the back half of the current practice putting green and the parking lot, pretty much next to where the starter's hut is now located.

The forward half of the putting green has already been extended towards the helicopter pad.

I doubt the new clubhouse will be visible to anyone standing on the 16th tee. 

DT

David,


I took the location from the article in the paper which you posted the link for.

The impetus for the new lease has been the club’s desire to build a £4.6 million new clubhouse on the 18th Green which would require further land.

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I was surprised that this would be the location though I did hear it mentioned a couple of years ago. I don't know whether you or the newspaper have it correct.

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As for not seeing it from the beach. You are of course correct that it will not be seen from the 16th tee but that is hardly the whole seafront is it. If the new clubhouse is built on the site of the 18th green then it will be visible from the majority of the beachfront.

Jon

[David_Tepper]

Jon -

I am 99.9% certain the new clubhouse will be in the location I have described. I am 100% certain it will not be on the present 18th green.

DT

[Jon Wiggett]

DT,


I was surprised too and you are almost correct. The new clubhouse will be about 60 yards away from the corner of the present one. It is to the side of the 1st tee and behind the putting green. Below is a link to the planning application.


https://wam.highland.gov.uk/wam/applicationDetails.do?activeTab=documents&keyVal=PV3L2ZIHHLV00


Jon

[David_Tepper]

Jon -

Other than underestimating the distance between the current and future clubhouses, I am 100% correct. A portion of the current putting green closest to the starter's will be eliminated (if it has not been already).


DT

[Mike Leveille]

Jon:


Thanks for your reply to my question.


Your take that the shorter fairway lengths has eliminated many shots off sloping lies is interesting.  Thinking about the humps in the fairways on holes like 11 and 14, I certainly have played many more shots over the years from behind those humps (often forcing me to take extra loft for my fairway shot) than on the humps themselves.  Being a 56 year old guy who hits a low ball, I must stay that I do like tightly mown links fairways that maximize my roll out.


Fully understood as to your comment regarding the greens being maintained in a manner that is receptive to trajectory, though I suspect that may be a byproduct of what I assume is the club's desire to not have the greens too firm and fast so as to avoid 5 hour rounds for the waves of visitors that come through in season.  I would certainly prefer that they be a bit more firm and fast when the weather cooperates.


Mike