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Tom Naccarato

Re: Mexico's Affordable Gem -- Bajamar Oceanfront Resort !
« Reply #25 on: November 20, 2008, 09:24:52 AM »
Since when does Apache Stronghold get a pass when it comes to their conditioning? In fact, I don't think there is a single person here that doesn't look upon the place as a complete tragedy--that one of the best designs in Arizona happens to be suffering from complete neglect and there is nothing that can be done about it. I'm actually surprised that the Apache Nation hasn't just turned around and walked away from the course, and just let it die... and you don't know how much it hurts to say that, knowing just how great of a golf course it really is.

But if your trying to compare the architecture that exists there, well Bajamar isn't capable of smelling Apache Stronghold's shorts. The one thing that Bajamar has going for it is that body of water that sits next too and you know that. That's why I think Bajamar is nothing but one huge gigantic missed opportunity.
« Last Edit: November 20, 2008, 11:51:41 AM by Tom Naccarato »

Matt_Ward

Re: Mexico's Affordable Gem -- Bajamar Oceanfront Resort !
« Reply #26 on: November 20, 2008, 03:06:11 PM »
Tommy N:

You missed my point ...

There have been people on this site who have completely dismissed conditioning as an element that needs to be factored into the discussion of a course -- and not just pertaining to AS.

I have previously opined conditioning is certainly not the first among equals when a layout is evaluated -- my top three are the site itself, the nature of the routing and the depth of the overall shot values. Conditioning is a secondary item which brings to life all the design elements that have been put into place by the architect.

I've heard the argument conditioning is some sort of element that can be added as needed -- the problem comes because those places that are short in that respective category never do anything to turn things around. AS is candidate #1 that fits that description.

AS is a fantastic course (when conditioning of marginal nature is present) -- but it's a big time stretch to say "Bajamar isn't capable of smelling Apache Stronghold's shorts." I've played both and if conditiong were equal AS is the better of the two -- I don't doubt that for a NY minute. But Bajamar had a good deal to offer from the architectural front on the separate occasions I have been there. Granted I was not there this past weekend -- but there is architecture there and frankly it provided me more than "one huge gigantic missed opportunity." Could it be more? Sure. So could just about any course.

If Bajamar (I wish on my part) were to bring in an architect to tweak what is there it's possible it could be a good deal more. But I've played a good bit throughout SoCal to know that the Bajamar I played would hold its head quite high when compared to all but the top tier layouts I have played throughout the region.

Clearly, given the reports that have been posted -- the layout is going through some difficult times. A pity.

Patrick K:

Agreed -- "a faux diamond in the rough."

 

Tom Naccarato

Re: Mexico's Affordable Gem -- Bajamar Oceanfront Resort !
« Reply #27 on: November 21, 2008, 02:42:31 AM »
Matt,
I've never been there, but what would you say about Brora?

Most who I talk to say that its an absolute charmer and that if you are expecting perfect conditions--demand perfect conditions--it would be a better decision not to play there ever and to please forget to tell anyone you've ever heard of it. they want it kept a secret, these true lovers of the links. You see, the architecture and the charm rule the place (so I'm told.) Probably most because of the simplicity. So perfect without the slightest hint of snobbery. Pretty cool is the first thing that comes to mind. Anyone that would care about the conditioning there doesn't belong there--one of the greatest places to experience the truest esssence of the Sport. Ran's review of it tells you to watch out for the cow pies walking from tee to green.

I guess I'm trying to suggest that sometimes--we American's put a lot of priority on conditioning. Don't get me wrong, I love a well-conditioned course just as much as the next guy, but I've found that the rough at the edges look to be more consistent with enjoying the sport at its fullest, especially when it comes to seaside golf. Real Golf.

But I do know how to give a course its due--when it deserves it.

Since we are obviously debating the course in general--the Oceano--well, let me list a few things that I, myself, don't care for architecturally.....

Hole 1) As about as exciting as white-breaded cheese sandwich. Not one ounce of provocative strategy--no strategy what-so-ever.

Hole 2) A decent hole from the tee because of the strategy of the lower and higher fairways. Which fairway would provide the easier path for one's game? Honestly, I don't see any reason why anyone would ever want to be on the lower right fairway and you definitely don't want to be too right from tee to green. Anything on the right side of the green is down the hill and out of bounds--if you play it that way, so that decision to be made from the tee has now become a moot point. PLAY IT LEFT. (at least that is what I've seen of the hole in my plays there)

Hole 3) A typical hole for a course (9 holes) that has some huge signs of mediocrity. Memorable? Not a chance!

Hole 4) Actually the best hole on this nine a decent hole with some strategies to be decided. You have the forced carry over the ravine to a typical punchbowl/backstop green complex.

Hole 5) After a terrifying ride down the hill, where your hoping and praying to Our Lady of Guadalupe that Alfredo, the Bajamar cart mechanic has done a decent job of maintaining the brakes on your cart (because the ride from the clubhouse to the first tee alone is reason to never walk the course--let alone the walk down from Hole #4, its time to play a somewhat decent par 3 over the water. You walk on to the tee and the water is literally splashing on to you from the rocks--your impressed! the tee shot on this par 3 is pretty stout, only your about to get the same green complex for the next three holes after it. I'll give it a passing grade here, but here come the rest of the last three out of four golf holes, and this is where the repetition really begins.

Holes 6,7 & 8 ) If I didn't complain about it, then I would be guilty of being biased against Rees Jones, so here it comes: I don't think I've ever seen worst artificial containment on a golf course in my whole life. Why? Well obviously to block out any errant tee shots into the houses that will eventually someday blot that entire left side. Its just horribly shaped; horribly planned. There is not a single ounce of strategy on any of these three golf holes--NONE. The four ocean holes walk single file in line to the 9th, which then marches up hill, but given the amount of land down there--which doesn't seem like a lot, you think someone could have devised some sort of different routing that featured the holes going into different directions, while still having room to some houses. Heck, maybe even a dog-legging par 4 or five with a break for a road no different then Shinnecock #12, or something like that. For that land down there, to me that's why it is a wasted opportunity.

Hole 9) While this hole could have been much worst, it isn't too bad, just a mere let down probably no different then finishing the 18th at Cypress Point for some. Only for me I was let down four holes before it. Blast a drive up the hill, blast a second shot to the green; DONE.

It's time to go get a shitty margarita in that room they call a bar, and definitely don't eat the food, which sucks for the prices they charge there. Use that time instead to get into Ensenada for Hussong's.

Matt, that's my take on what was once Mexico's once affordable gem--but Bajamar's Vista and Lagos courses are worth some amount of praise. (and to experience the somewhat entertaining work of a Mexican legend, Percy Clifford.)(I've played 27 holes of Clifford's handiwork, and seemingly he got it. Some of the work is quite good including Mazatlan's Club Compuestre, another course I've played a fare share of times on four visits there.)

« Last Edit: November 21, 2008, 02:51:37 AM by Tom Naccarato »

Greg Hohman

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Mexico's Affordable Gem -- Bajamar Oceanfront Resort !
« Reply #28 on: January 09, 2020, 11:13:51 AM »
Playing Bajamar on Sunday, Jan 19. Vista and Ocean were recommended to me. Will try to post photos here for the first time. Using 2016 US Open tees to give future archeologists something to chew on.
« Last Edit: January 25, 2020, 10:25:25 PM by Greg Hohman »
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Pete Lavallee

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Mexico's Affordable Gem -- Bajamar Oceanfront Resort !
« Reply #29 on: January 11, 2020, 10:18:39 AM »
Obviously the Ocean 9 is the main attraction. Of the other 2 the Vistas done by Percy Clifford is the better choice. The Lagos done by David Fleming was under construction last month so your choice may well be predetermined.
"...one inoculated with the virus must swing a golf-club or perish."  Robert Hunter

Greg Hohman

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Mexico's Affordable Gem -- Bajamar Oceanfront Resort !
« Reply #30 on: January 25, 2020, 10:39:41 PM »
To play Ocean and Vista, we had to play Vista first. Our slow group was disappointed to run out of light on Ocean 6…Consolation: Vista has plenty of ocean views. We had a fantastic time.

Friday to Sunday late rate starting at 1 is $79. Although the website says cart required, I had $4 or 5 knocked off the price as a walker.
 
The Bajamar property is large and the development seems prosperous. Nice housing and quite a bit of it. Although Vista and Ocean were empty (nobody harmed by our slow play), the clubhouse parking lot had cars and people were in the bar/restaurant and on the putting green. Only unfinished housing, iirc, was beside Ocean 4 tee. My Spanish-speaking friends familiar with the area handled all logistics. It’s hard to envision my managing alone. We stayed at an oceanfront timeshare in Rosarito called La Paloma. It could have been in La Jolla CA. If there is a next time, I would check out Bajamar’s Hotel Hacienda and its other amenities.
 
I can’t disagree with the criticisms of Ocean expressed above, esp. re 6 thru 8. Vista was the more pleasing round. The greens of both were typical of the publics I can afford in SoCal: few thrills. I found one bunker all day (the large one left of Ocean 1 green); the sand was like rock.
 
Most unexpected feature: quite large grass amphitheater between Ocean 8 and 9. Spectators face the ocean. I wonder how much it is used!
 
Wildlife highlights: bobcat on Vista 1, vultures.
 
Meal tip: El Nido in Rosarito for the atmosphere. (Two breakfasts do not qualify me to judge the menu.)
 
If unable to post photos, I will post a link to photos.
 
newmonumentsgc.com

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