Norwood Hills St Louis & Wayne Stiles

[Bill Shamleffer]

Norwood Hills of St Louis will host new PGA Tour Champions event in 2020.
This 36 hole course was designed by Wayne Stiles in early 1920s.


Have any Wayne Stiles fans played this course recently?  How much of his work still exists?


https://www.pgatour.com/champions/news/2019/10/08/pga-tour-champions-coming-to-st--louis.html
https://www.norwoodhills.com/golf


Norwood was added to The National Register of Historic Places in 2005.
This request form has some good history and a few photos.
https://dnr.mo.gov/shpo/nps-nr/05000084.pdf


In this Bob Labbance & Kevin Mendik interview posted on this site in April 2008, see the 3rd Q where they discuss Wayne Stiles & Norwood.
http://golfclubatlas.com/feature-interview/bob-labbance-and-kevin-mendik/


I believe John Kavanaugh used to be a member at Norwood.  My brother was a member from mid-1980s, to very early 2000s before moving to Algonquin Golf Club.  I caddied there for a few tournaments, and used to play on an annual basis with my brothers.


The West course is the "championship" course (Hogan won 1948 PGA Championship on this course).  More renovations have occurred on the West course.  The East is barely 6000 yards, although not punishing, it is also not boring, and has some good strategy.


These two courses are overlooked as secondary in the St. Louis area after St. Louis CC, Bellerive, Old Warson.  And even Boone Valley, St. Albans, and Glen Echo, often get more talk than Norwood.  However, these are quite good classic golf course.


And it is usually one of the more affordable clubs while still offering very good facilities.  (The 36 holes allow the course to host large outings on most Monday's thus creating a healthy revenue stream for a club where most of the membership live some distance from where the club is located.)


I might put the West course at 6 on the Doak scale, (although possibly upgrade it to a 7 for the uniqueness of a Stiles course in the Midwest).


East course maybe 5 on Doak scale.

[Ryan Hillenbrand]

There’s a map of the original design of the 54 holes (the 9 hole South course was never built but a few of the holes were incorporated in the eventual East layout) hanging in the clubhouse. Until the late 80s the routing hadn’t changed but a renovation occurred then that changed some holes substantially.


They utilized some additional land and created 2 entirely new holes, 15 & 16, to add length. Holes 1, 5 - 14, and 18 are original Stiles holes I believe.


I put it in my top 10 in St. Louis, and with major tree removal maybe top 5. A composite course utilizing the back 9 on the East ( the best 9 holes IMO) might make it top 3.  Always known for having the fastest greens in town, and until the last 20 years was “the” club if you were a player.

[Bill Shamleffer]

I put it in my top 10 in St. Louis, and with major tree removal maybe top 5. A composite course utilizing the back 9 on the East ( the best 9 holes IMO) might make it top 3.  Always known for having the fastest greens in town, and until the last 20 years was “the” club if you were a player.

Ryan:  In the late 70s & early 80s, Forest Hills had the reputation for the truest & fastest greens in St. Louis.  But it seems like since the LPGA left St. Louis, I never hear much about Forest Hills anymore.


Is the club still healthy, but just deciding that it is OK with being quiet & low key?

[Joel_Stewart]

Not to thread jack but do you St Louis people know anything about Log Cabin? I was invited to play but looking at some pictures not sure it's worthwhile.

[David Amarnek]

I’ve played the East course at Norwood in one of their many Monday charity events and was underwhelmed by both the conditions and architecture.  I’ve only toured the West course, prior to a wedding, so I really can’t comment on its quality.  It’s in a marginal neighborhood and therefore they have had some membership issues.  The fact that they have a charity event nearly every Monday on one or both courses must generate significant revenue.


As for Forest Hills, I don’t know any members over there and hear nothing about it, good or bad.  I last played there about 15 years ago in a medical staff outing.


Re. Log Cabin, I find the two courses (LCC and The Bogey Club) to be a lot of fun to play and would never turn down an invitation, especially if you can play at St. Louis CC or another fine club while you were in town (I’m assuming you are not a St. Louis resident).  Bellerive is closed (both the course and clubhouse) and Old Warson currently  has only nine holes open.

[Ryan Hillenbrand]

I put it in my top 10 in St. Louis, and with major tree removal maybe top 5. A composite course utilizing the back 9 on the East ( the best 9 holes IMO) might make it top 3.  Always known for having the fastest greens in town, and until the last 20 years was “the” club if you were a player.

Ryan:  In the late 70s & early 80s, Forest Hills had the reputation for the truest & fastest greens in St. Louis.  But it seems like since the LPGA left St. Louis, I never hear much about Forest Hills anymore.


Is the club still healthy, but just deciding that it is OK with being quiet & low key?

Forest Hills is very healthy, membership is full. The course is always in good shape but its a very quirky layout. Its in a good location with a youngish membership that is very social. My impression is golf course architecture isn't a big concern there, as long as the beers are cold and the Lululemon is hot

[Ryan Hillenbrand]

I’ve played the East course at Norwood in one of their many Monday charity events and was underwhelmed by both the conditions and architecture.  I’ve only toured the West course, prior to a wedding, so I really can’t comment on its quality.  It’s in a marginal neighborhood and therefore they have had some membership issues.  The fact that they have a charity event nearly every Monday on one or both courses must generate significant revenue.


As for Forest Hills, I don’t know any members over there and hear nothing about it, good or bad.  I last played there about 15 years ago in a medical staff outing.


Re. Log Cabin, I find the two courses (LCC and The Bogey Club) to be a lot of fun to play and would never turn down an invitation, especially if you can play at St. Louis CC or another fine club while you were in town (I’m assuming you are not a St. Louis resident).  Bellerive is closed (both the course and clubhouse) and Old Warson currently  has only nine holes open.

The East course isn't going to impress many people, especially the front 9, but I still stand by my opinion on the back 9.

[Bill Shamleffer]

Not to thread jack but do you St Louis people know anything about Log Cabin? I was invited to play but looking at some pictures not sure it's worthwhile.

Yes, play Log Cabin.  It will never be on a Top --- list.  Rather it is like playing golf in a time capsule.  The course has had some upgrading in recent years, but the layout still harkens back to how many golf courses looked pre-WWII.  It can be a fun place to play.


If you like to play with some persimmon woods occasionally, this is the ideal place to play.

[Steve Pozaric]

I just played the East Course at Norwood last week.  Course was in good shape, a lot of elevation changes and fun to play.


As to Log Cabin, I agree with others - don’t pass it up.  If nothing else, it gets very little play and always in good shape.  As someone else mentioned, they renovated the course a few years ago, added length, redid greens, bunker and many of the holes.  Cut down a lot of trees and opened things up.  It lost some of its old design charm, but is a much better course to play.  It isn’t long, but has good holes.