Ohoopee

[Tom_Doak]

How important is it for any course to satisfy on the first round? Or should it build like a fine wine?

Thomas:


Great question.  There’s no control for whether a particular golfer will have a good day or a bad day, and it’s hard to be satisfied if one plays like crap.


As you say, the most important aspect is for the course to make you want to come back again, and that can happen even as you’re walking off a green frustrated by a big number.

[Chad Anderson (Tennessee)]

The way you play definitely affects overall thoughts on the course, but the best courses still pull through.


I played normal for me at Ohoopee.  Lots of variety on the holes.


If I had to split my time between Congaree and Ohoopee, it would depend on how I was playing with.  I'd give Congaree the advantage, but if I was going with a group of guys and doing a stay and play, I'd pick Ohoopee due to the Whiskey routing.


What a good problem to have!  Having to play 10 combined rounds at those two courses!

[Steve Lapper]

 I was fortunate enough to have played both late last May. I played like crap on both courses and would unquestionably like to return and play each again.


 Ooopee is by and far the better course (for my tastes) and one of Gil's finest original designs, yet I liked Congaree very much, enjoyed the "new" Fazio width and variety, and believe (for several personal reasons) it might prove more appealing as a club.


 I strongly disagree with those who believe "how you play definitely affects overall thoughts on the course." Having played poorly at both didn't diminish my appreciation nor analysis of either.


 I've shot in the mid-70s at one place and the high 80's the next day at another multiple times, yet would find the latter a better course than the former. IMO, objectivity is critical to becoming a decent judge of any architecture.


 Finally, I enjoy a few blind shots, especially on a course with worthy architectural merit. IMO, it adds to the mental challenge and stimulates further thought on just how to tackle any given hole.

[Jim Franklin]

I was fortunate enough to have played both late last May. I played like crap on both courses and would unquestionably like to return and play each again.


 Ooopee is by and far the better course (for my tastes) and one of Gil's finest original designs, yet I liked Congaree very much, enjoyed the "new" Fazio width and variety, and believe (for several personal reasons) it might prove more appealing as a club.


 I strongly disagree with those who believe "how you play definitely affects overall thoughts on the course." Having played poorly at both didn't diminish my appreciation nor analysis of either.


 I've shot in the mid-70s at one place and the high 80's the next day at another multiple times, yet would find the latter a better course than the former. IMO, objectivity is critical to becoming a decent judge of any architecture.


 Finally, I enjoy a few blind shots, especially on a course with worthy architectural merit. IMO, it adds to the mental challenge and stimulates further thought on just how to tackle any given hole.

Well said. I would split them 5 and 5. Both are fantastic. Ohoopee has the firm and fast down. So much fun.

[Keith Phillips]

Steve you are a better man than me - years ago I shot 84 at Oakmont and 102 at WFW a month apart - for me Oakmont is the #1 inland course and WFW misses the top 20!

I was fortunate enough to have played both late last May. I played like crap on both courses and would unquestionably like to return and play each again.


 Ooopee is by and far the better course (for my tastes) and one of Gil's finest original designs, yet I liked Congaree very much, enjoyed the "new" Fazio width and variety, and believe (for several personal reasons) it might prove more appealing as a club.


 I strongly disagree with those who believe "how you play definitely affects overall thoughts on the course." Having played poorly at both didn't diminish my appreciation nor analysis of either.


 I've shot in the mid-70s at one place and the high 80's the next day at another multiple times, yet would find the latter a better course than the former. IMO, objectivity is critical to becoming a decent judge of any architecture.


 Finally, I enjoy a few blind shots, especially on a course with worthy architectural merit. IMO, it adds to the mental challenge and stimulates further thought on just how to tackle any given hole.

[Mike Hendren]

How important is it for any course to satisfy on the first round? Or should it build like a fine wine?

Thomas:


Great question.  There’s no control for whether a particular golfer will have a good day or a bad day, and it’s hard to be satisfied if one plays like crap.


As you say, the most important aspect is for the course to make you want to come back again, and that can happen even as you’re walking off a green frustrated by a big number.

This is why I'm fond of Tom Doak.  Sure he builds good and great golf courses, but he understands the up and down dynamics of being something less than a stellar golfer more than anyone on this website. 

Unfortunately as a few of you know, I play like crap, but I have a lot of time for scraping it around an interesting golf course.

Mike

[Kyle Casella]

I played right around the same time as Chad and I thought everything about the place was brilliant. The width and scale are truly outstanding combined with the very firm turf. I played both the big course and Whiskey route twice. I agree with those who said that the opening feels long, especially with holes 2 & 3 combining for 1200 yards!


There were many standout holes to me and it was a lot of fun to play from different angles and yardages in the four trips around. A few highlights for me:


2nd: the only hole with water is a strong cape style par 5. One can bail out 50-60 yards right of the green but then you are a left with a difficult downhill chip or pitch with water long.


4th: a truly excellent rendition of the 10th at Riviera with more teeth. You must challenge a large sandy area down the left side for a better angle. The green is protected by many mounds that serve as challenging substitutes for the bunkers at Riv. I think it would take a few more plays to get the confidence to hit driver!


6th (2nd on Whiskey): I loved playing this hole from two totally different angles. A stout, blind dogleg left par 4.5 on the main course turns into a blind, straight medium-length par 4 on the Whiskey route. The green seemingly melts into the surrounding landscape and is very playable with no trouble short and danger long.


9th: we played at four different yardages ranging from 165 to 310 yards. My favorite was playing from about 220-230. A slight dogleg left with a green that runs diagonally front right to back left, with a small plateau at the back. A safe shot down the left side leaves a difficult uphill pitch over a small pot bunker, which also must be challenged if attempting to hit the green.


12th: I loved the green site on this long-ish par 4. A huge waste area lines the right side and one can hit it miles left, leaving a long second.


13th: their "Biarritz" with more of an uphill swale fronting the green than the traditional template making for some wild short game opportunities. Played between 170 and 270 yards. It is very stout from the back!


14th: a 300 yard par 4 very reminiscent of 5 at Boston Golf Club, although flat and shorter. I thought this hole was brilliant and made a 2, 3, 4 and 6 in four tries. Anything challenging the sandy waste down the right will give you a great angle into the green. Challenging the green is very tempting but miss a hair left or in the back right bunker and you'll have a lot of work left for a 4, even if you're only 10 yards from the pin!


17th: major Pine Valley vibes on this ~385 yard hole which I thought the most visually stunning hole on the course filled with a lot of eye candy! A shot down the right will leave a great angle but it's tough to position it there from the tee. The second is slightly uphill with an obscured view and lots of trouble lurking.


A Hole: the first truly new hole on the Whiskey Route is par 4.5 with one of the most unique punchbowl style green sites I've seen. I could have parked on this green for half a day trying various chips and putts.


Overall, I thought both the quality of the golf and the fine Southern hospitality to be truly outstanding. A very impressive effort by both Gil and the owner in creating a unique and special place.