Middle Bay CC - Oceanside, Long Island

[Ted Kramer]

Does anybody here know anything about Middle Bay CC in Oceanside?
I've driven past the club a million times, but don't know anything about it. Just curious to hear from anyone who has played it.

Thanks,
Ted

[Brad Klein]

Architect Stephen Kay knows quite a lot about the place, in central Long Island, since he worked there in the mid-1990s. It's out there on the coastal marsh of Oceanside, just east of Seawane, and in all the years I drove around there and played other courses never actually got there. I bet Jason Blasberg has played it and knows it well, too.

[Ted Kramer]

I grew up in Oceanside, but had absolutely no interest in golf during those years. Curious to hear from anyone who has played there, wondering what I might have missed . . .

-Ted

[Jason Blasberg]

Middle Bay is a bit of an enigma . . . it has a handful of stellar holes a par 3, the 7th I believe, the greensite sits at the edge of Reynolds Channel and is always into the wind.  The drivable 4 par 8th plays with the Channel down the left side.  And it also has a lot of let's just say less than stellar holes.

Middle Bay has a number of very good 400-430 yard 4 pars that, depending upon the wind can play driver - wedge or driver - 4 iron.  

I caddied for a good friend about 10 years ago in one of the MGA assistant events and my buddy shot about 82 in a three club wind and the guy he played with finished 2nd at level par.  He hit about 12, 1-iron dart hooks into the wind, the most piercing ball flight I've witnessed in person.

Middle Bay has potential but it's greensites are buried in artifical mounding and the trees are ubiquotous and out of place not thriving in the high water table as their roots go nowhere (not more than 15-20 feet high for the most part).  

For the 5-Town area clubs (although Oceanside is well East of the 5-towns they participate in the annual team 5 Towns Cup) it's got the best short game practice area in the 5-Towns with about a 90 yard 3 par and grass practice tee.

It's credited to Alfred Tull and Dr. Quirin states that half the course was assumed by the town by eminent domain back in the 1951 for Oceanside High School.  

The most interesting part of Middle Bay's history, IMO, is that it used to be called the Oceanside G&CC and after the town condemned it in '51 a good portion of the membership left and formed what is now the current membership at Engineers.  Although I've not been able to confirm that from anyone at Engineers yet.  

P.S.  I have to give an assist to Geoff Childs who helped me out of a jam when I couldn't find my copy of Dr. Quirin's Golf Clubs of the MGA for date references.

Andrew Wexler lists Oceanside G&CC at 6,145, par 71.

[Ted Kramer]

Thanks Jason.

-Ted

[ChipOat]

Middle Bay will be NLE within 10 years.  The club leases its property and has elected not to renew (price too high); many members are already bailing out to Woodmere and Inwood.

[Jason Blasberg]

Never build a golf course on land you do not own in fee simple.

[Jim_Kennedy]

It might be necessary to rethink who built Oceanside, AKA Middle Bay. This article says it was John Duncan Dunn, not Alfred Tull.

Lower left hand column:

http://www.fultonhistory.com/Newspaper%205/Brooklyn%20NY%20Daily%20Eagle/Brooklyn%20NY%20Daily%20Eagle%201931%20Grayscale/Brooklyn%20NY%20Daily%20Eagle%201931%20Grayscale%20-%201019.pdf#xml=http://www.fultonhistory.com/dtSearch/dtisapi6.dll?cmd=getpdfhits&u=ffffffffdf1c220e&DocId=13329812&Index=Z%3a%2fFulton%20Historical&HitCount=2&hits=d45+d46+&SearchForm=C%3a%5cinetpub%5cwwwroot%5cFulton%5fNew%5fform%2ehtml&.pdf

[Phil Carlucci]

Just posted a bit of a property history of what we now know post-Sandy as The Golf Club at Middle Bay.  A few items that I thought were interesting while going through old clippings:

*Despite its location near the bay -- not right on it like today's course -- the original course was "essentially inland in character," as written in the Brooklyn Daily Eagle.  "No back-breaking carries, no awe-inspiring water holes like ... at Lido. ... It'll be wide enough.  And no horrible hazards are in sight.  But against the morning breezes it will require plenty of long, strong hitting."  There was one water hazard on the course and it was an artificial one dug out for "almost an island green."

*The same 1931 article describes how from its nearest point to the bay, looking south you can see the "huge Lido sign" across the water.  (Oft-discussed in Peter's Lido computer-model thread.)

*Alfred Tull designed the modern course (opened in 1955) over marshland along the bay, though it seems the new extension didn't really take to the grounds for quite some time.  Tull spent several seasons renovating holes due to salt damage, building new greens and bunkers, etc., per Newsday.

https://www.golfonlongisland.com/teebox/2019/01/origins-the-golf-club-at-middle-bay.html

[Peter Gannon]

Thanks Phil!  Very interesting.  My parents grew up in nearby Rockville Centre and Baldwin.  Golf with my uncles mostly meant Lido pre Sandy, which still was not that much of a treat. 


I've been playing Middle Bay since it opened as South Bay.  it was really really rough post Sandy, and the clubhouse was frightening.
Great news they are able to rebuild it.


But, they managed to keep the greens in good shape, rolling fast and true. 


They have come a long way, and the bayside holes are all about the wind.  They've changed the routing, but a 200yd par 3 always into the wind, followed by a "driveable", by some, par 4, and a par 3 typically with the wind is always a tough hole to judge club selection.


I don't understand why they don't allow walking.  It's a very walkable course, and carts are included in the greens fee, so I guess it's not about added revenue?  Hope that changes, I would go more often. 

[Phil Carlucci]

I didn't realize they don't allow walking.  Certainly is walkable given it's dead flat and everything is pretty close together. 

I was there reopening weekend 2013 after Sandy and there definitely was a ghoulish feeling walking past that battered clubhouse.  I can't believe it took until now to level it.  For the most part the course itself seemed unaffected, save for some bunker work near the bay.  I remember they told me the rain and snow immediately after Sandy helped wash out the saltwater and limit turf damage.