Can you appreciate it, if you can't see it?

[A_Clay_Man]

Tom- Feeling disappointed is a direct result of expectations, so my answer is still no, they missed nothing and experienced something. If they "feel" as you propose "screw'em" for expecting.

[THuckaby2]

Adam:

I'm not saying they leave disappointed - anyone who leaves CPC in that state doesn't deserve to be there in the first place - what I'm saying is they're likely DYING to get back, and see what they missed, more than the man who sees it in sunshine.

TH

[Mike Benham]

... DYING to get back, and see what they missed, more than the man who sees it in sunshine.

If the fog was as thick as only seeing 200 yards, I don't see how you can't be disappointed (sorry for the double negatie) by not being able to see the whole enchilada.

I would still be on Cloud 9 after playing but ...

Playing golf in fog is a peaceful experience, and at Cypress, it would heighten your senses to the close in nuances of the course and its design but only to the point where you can see 350 yards ...

Would you have the same level of appreciation if it rained all day and you slopped around in a rainsuit?

[TEPaul]

It seems like most have answered Bob Huntley's question---"Can you appreciate it (Cypress Point), if you can't see it?"--basically playing it in pea soup fog--that yes you certainly can appreciate CP that way.

But I guess the obvious next question is would you appreciate it more if there was no fog and it was a bright clear sunny day?

I'd appreciate CP in a pea soup fog but I'd appreciate it more on a bright sunny day. I'd appreciate CP just walking around it too--but I definitely would not appreciate CP walking around it in a pea soup fog when I could see virtually nothing. I can basically stay right here in Pennsylvania and appreciate CP that way!  

[THuckaby2]

200 yards means you can see from tee to green at 16.  I thought the assumption here was fog so think you can't see 20 yards ahead....

Anyway, I continue to believe anyone with any soul is gonna be on cloud 9 after playing CPC regardless of conditions, including rain.  So I guess that answers Bob's question... No experience of CPC is ever going to be bad, no matter what the conditions.

The views are just so great, so incredible, well... I'd think one would want to experience that, as well.

TH

[Mike Benham]

200 yards means you can see from tee to green at 16.  I thought the assumption here was fog so think you can't see 20 yards ahead....

Mike Sweeney said:

"I will comment more fully later when I have more time in reference to Bob's question, but I was fortunate to hit the green on 16 with a faded 3 wood into a slight breeze where you could see the outline of the bunkers through the fog. About 12 feet left of a left pin, two putt for par. "

I assumed 200 yards from Mike's disclosure ...

[TEPaul]

This isn't that much different than the time many years ago when I went to visit my sister in Vancouver, British Columbia. I spent two weeks there and for the first 13 days it was extremely overcast and basically fogged in everyday all day. On the final day as I was leaving it all lifted and there before me was one of the more beautful cities and dramatic surroundings I'd ever seen, leading me to tell my sister;

"Jeeesus, there really is something there and it's knock-out beautiful!"

It's just too bad my sister didn't arrange about 14 golf games for me out there because when I play golf the sun follows me everywhere!  

So remember all you golfing addicts and globetrotters out there if you're going to some special places and special courses to play it would do you well to take me with you, if it's sun and good weather you want to guarantee.

I've got the magic---there's no doubt about it--but if others want me to work that magic for them and guarantee it, it'll cost them! We can even negotiate about some kind of warrantee and some kind of partial refund if things don't work out as expected but I should inform you all under the truth in advertizing concept that I'm a tough negotiator too!  

[THuckaby2]

OK, gotcha.  I read that a little differently, but I see your point.  In any case by the time they got to 16, the fog was still pretty damn bad.

Here's the thing:  one of the great experiences in golf is the walk from 15 to 16, where the most famous hole in the entire freakin' world literally bursts out before you as you come out of the little grove of trees....

If you can only barely see the outline of the bunkers, you've missed this incredible experience.

So yes, again, no day at CPC is ever going to be BAD.  No one with a soul can possibly ever leave there DISAPPOINTED.

In the fog, one just misses this specific incredible experience, and several other mind-blowing vistas, as well.

So Mike, in the end, you are correct - make the view 350 yards, with the same fog, and one captures the spiritual/artsy feel of which Adam speaks, and yet still misses nothing.

Interesting, unless my memory is off, that's pretty much how it was one time I played there, with a famous aerial-reproducing Va Tech grad (who must be quite bummed this morning, btw)....

TH

[Mark_Fine]

Bob,
The answer is NO.  I just played Olympic Lake in the fog with a few colleagues who had never been there before.  Fortunately, I've played it several times (including in the fog) but my friends had not.  It got to be a bit of a joke as I'd stand on the tee and point out to them some of the neat design features of the hole.  Of course we couldn't see any of them.  I promised I'd bring them back another time so they could see what they just played  
Mark

[Mike_Sweeney]

Bob,

After a perfect day at Pebble Beach:



We did see some fog at Cypress:





Certainly nobody should feel sorry for me, hopefully this picture sums up my feelings towards the day at Cypress:



Having been 100 miles out in the Atlantic Ocean fishing in the Baltimore Canyon in pea soup, I was real comfortable hitting a golf ball into the shadows of the 16th.

[THuckaby2]

Pictures do speak a lot of words.  Thanks, Mike!

It's hard not to have a grin at CPC, whatever the weather is like... and from the pics, it looks like you might have gotten the perfect "weather meld" - the artsy/spiritual that Adam mentions PLUS actually being able to see.

TH

[Brad Swanson]

Wow Mike!  Those are great pictures!  I've never been to the Monterey Peninsula, but your pictures are exactly the way I envision it.  The fog just adds to the surreal surroundings.  Makes me want to book a trip for the annual mid-winter immunology meeting in January at Asilomar.  

Your smile says it all.
 
Cheers,
Brad Swanson  

[A_Clay_Man]

Brad- Don't invite Tepaul when you go, he'll bring the dam sun. Plus, if those who want to golf in sunshine when on the central coast of California, a few miles inland is all one needs to drive to find it.

Great Pics, the one on 15 tee looks like the old opening of "Dark Shadows". Way cool.

And the one of 15 green is perhaps the best I've ever seen. So eerie with the carcass of the dead cypress tree. If I'm not mistaken, that grey area to the right of the dead tree is the 16th green, no?

[Mike_Sweeney]

Adam,

You will be pleased to hear that we also made a special trip over to the equally famous (in certain circles)  Pacific Grove to play the back 9 as a warm-up to Pebble. Yes the 12th hole is a great bukerless Par 5, that would rival many of its famous brothers. If I get time later, I will try to post a few more. Have to do some work today.

[A_Clay_Man]

Mike- Wow sounds like a great trip. P.G. is da nutz. I love the simplicity of the 13th too.

Oh yeah almost forgot, SCREW work, post post post!

[TEPaul]

Those photos show CP in pea soup fog? That ain't fog where I come from! You want to see some fog come to Maidstone sometime. It's a damn good thing I'm as familiar as I am with the roads getting in there!

[Mark_Fine]

Come on guys, if you think playing #16 in conditions like that is "ideal" you are wacked!  Sure it might be cool to do so once in a while but any golfer, if they ever do get to play CP, would want to see the hole from the tee, not just guess where it is.  

When I'm in the U.K., I'm one of those guys who hates to play links golf in sunny calm conditions.  I enjoy the elements (wind and rain) as it is part of the game.  But visibility (fog) is another matter.  

There are few places more spectacular than CP on a clear and breezy day and I doubt Mike would really prefer to play CP on a foggy day.  

 

[Mike_Sweeney]

Come on guys, if you think playing #16 in conditions like that is "ideal" you are wacked!  

There are few places more spectacular than CP on a clear and breezy day and if Mike tells you he'd prefer to play CP on a foggy day like he had he is lying.  

Mark,

In the "Less Filling vs Great Taste" world of GCA, I never said I preferred to play CP on a foggy day. I was simply trying to answer Bob's question that I did appreciate the day at CPC.

I just showed my wife my photos post, and she clearly feels that we are all wacked !! Obviously, we would have preferred the fog to clear, especially on the 9th tee and holes 13-17 at CPC. But taken as an entire trip (see my photos post), a little fog is good and expected on the Monterey Peninsula.

[Tom_Doak]

Bob,

It depends on the course, I guess, but on a great course like Cypress Point, no, you can't appreciate the full magnitude of it in the fog.  This doesn't mean it's not worth playing in such conditions, but you can't appreciate the design.

So much of design on a great course is visual -- how the fairway bunkers set up and make you think, what is the background for greens, how long vistas were incorporated into the course.  You're missing all that if a property has that to offer.

[TEPaul]

I know of one course--Old Head--not only would you not want to play in the fog, they apparently won't even let you. I guess they feel the possibliltiy of a misstep might sent you to the same fate as Haley or Hawley!

[A_Clay_Man]

Upon further reflection I will agree that one major aspect of "too much" fog is the inability to pick-up on some of the use of the land within this specific design.

My memory ain't that great but I do recall the use of the 14th fairway to guide me while I was on the opposite end of the vista and the dune behind #10 points the way. These elements would be missed and they were important aspects on my virgin trek.

[Mike_Sweeney]

and if Mike tells you he'd prefer to play CP on a foggy day like he had he is lying.  

Mark,

On further reflection after a morning run, I would ask that you remove or modify post #44. Working in the securities industry I am somewhat sensitive about the reference to lying. While others are more free flowing here, I am typically careful about what I post, and again I never said that I preferred CP on a foggy day, simply that I enjoyed and appreciated the day at CP and the graciousness of my host(s).

I have met you and you have offered help to me in the past, so I don't want this to be a big deal, but the dozens of securities lawyers that post on this site could probably confirm my paranoia. Besides I don't need the Vijay Singh references.

Thanks

[Mark_Fine]

Mike,
No problem.  Done.  
Mark