Could you have designed a better course at Old Head?

[Tom_Doak]

From the Old Head website:  Fittingly the course was designed and constructed by a unique team, Ron Kirby - former designer at Jack Nicklaus's Golf Design Services, the late Eddie Hackett - former Irish golf professional and golf course designer, the late Dr. Joe Carr - Ireland's most successful international amateur golfer, Paddy Merrigan - Australian course architect and agronomist, Liam Higgins - one of Ireland's best known golf professionals currently on the Seniors Tour and finally, Haulie O'Shea - building contractor.


Given how many folks were apparently involved I wonder how matters were organised? Head man, overall routing, ‘names’ only-no actual input, ego/vanity, fingers in pies, “this is my hole, that’s your hole”, “I want to use this irrigation contractor not that one?”........and of course......design and supervision fees!
Just curious.

As Ally surmised, this was not a collaborative effort like Sebonack ... the developer went to several designers in turn, and pried some things out of each of them [which he may or may not have paid for].


I don't know how Eddie Hackett was involved, he probably just came and looked at the site and offered a potential routing.  If he advised them to "go international," they didn't take his advice for a long time.


When I was introduced to them by some friends at Waterville [where John O'Connor was a member] - winter and spring of 1991-92 - I was told the preliminary routing they showed me was by Paddy Merrigan, whose name I'd never heard.  [I'm still not aware of another course he designed.]  And a few of the holes are still from that routing, including numbers 3-4-5, though I think it's fair to say most golf course architects would have found and considered those.  [Liam Higgins' name comes about because of his friendship with John O'Connor at Waterville, I'm not aware that he had anything to do with the design.]


I was there at the same time as Mr. Carr, who had already been brought on board, mostly to help them with credibility in selling memberships since they were only considering less expensive, lesser-known designers. 


After they decided not to work with me, I think they started construction with Paddy Merrigan and Joe Carr, but the project was under-funded and stalled after a year with no holes grassed.  A year or two later, when they got more money together, Ron Kirby came along and finished the job.  I think the routing of #12 through 14, among others, was his idea.


I'm not sure why they have chosen to parcel out the credit as they have; perhaps in part it's to compensate all of them for contributions for which they were not paid, but in some cases the advantage is to the developer.  My take is that if Ron Kirby hadn't come along, the Old Head would still just be a rock in the ocean; but there are plenty of people around Kinsale who wish it was.

[Adam Lawrence]

Here, fwiw, is Brian Keogh's obit of Paddy Merrigan, with a partial list of courses he worked on:


https://www.irishgolfdesk.com/news-files/2016/1/14/another-big-loss-for-irish-golf-as-designer-paddy-merrigan-passes-away

[Thomas Dai]

From the Old Head website:  Fittingly the course was designed and constructed by a unique team, Ron Kirby - former designer at Jack Nicklaus's Golf Design Services, the late Eddie Hackett - former Irish golf professional and golf course designer, the late Dr. Joe Carr - Ireland's most successful international amateur golfer, Paddy Merrigan - Australian course architect and agronomist, Liam Higgins - one of Ireland's best known golf professionals currently on the Seniors Tour and finally, Haulie O'Shea - building contractor.
Given how many folks were apparently involved I wonder how matters were organised? Head man, overall routing, ‘names’ only-no actual input, ego/vanity, fingers in pies, “this is my hole, that’s your hole”, “I want to use this irrigation contractor not that one?”........and of course......design and supervision fees!
Just curious.

As Ally surmised, this was not a collaborative effort like Sebonack ... the developer went to several designers in turn, and pried some things out of each of them [which he may or may not have paid for].
I don't know how Eddie Hackett was involved, he probably just came and looked at the site and offered a potential routing.  If he advised them to "go international," they didn't take his advice for a long time.
When I was introduced to them by some friends at Waterville [where John O'Connor was a member] - winter and spring of 1991-92 - I was told the preliminary routing they showed me was by Paddy Merrigan, whose name I'd never heard.  [I'm still not aware of another course he designed.]  And a few of the holes are still from that routing, including numbers 3-4-5, though I think it's fair to say most golf course architects would have found and considered those.  [Liam Higgins' name comes about because of his friendship with John O'Connor at Waterville, I'm not aware that he had anything to do with the design.]
I was there at the same time as Mr. Carr, who had already been brought on board, mostly to help them with credibility in selling memberships since they were only considering less expensive, lesser-known designers. 
After they decided not to work with me, I think they started construction with Paddy Merrigan and Joe Carr, but the project was under-funded and stalled after a year with no holes grassed.  A year or two later, when they got more money together, Ron Kirby came along and finished the job.  I think the routing of #12 through 14, among others, was his idea.
I'm not sure why they have chosen to parcel out the credit as they have; perhaps in part it's to compensate all of them for contributions for which they were not paid, but in some cases the advantage is to the developer.  My take is that if Ron Kirby hadn't come along, the Old Head would still just be a rock in the ocean; but there are plenty of people around Kinsale who wish it was.

Thanks for the insights Tom, nicely informative.
Surprising too what Lou says about OH being so highly recommended in comparison to other usually well regarded Irish courses within the US. An example of successful targeted marketing?
Atb

[Edward Glidewell]

Thanks for the insights Tom, nicely informative.
Surprising too what Lou says about OH being so highly recommended in comparison to other usually well regarded Irish courses within the US. An example of successful targeted marketing?
Atb

Marketing probably helps, but I'd guess it's more a factor of this website holding a minority opinion among golfers. There are huge numbers of golfers who probably love Old Head just because it's in good shape (I assume) and has spectacular views. The actual holes themselves aren't really a significant consideration as long as they aren't ridiculously over the top hard with lost balls everywhere. If they can hit it, find it, and hit it again and everything looks pretty, it's a great golf course.

[Rick Shefchik]

Of all the courses in Ireland, Old Head is the one that has been universally recommended to me as a "Must Play".  I know two or three guys who think Royal County Down (my personal favorite) is vastly overrated, that Royal Portrush has several ordinary holes (don't think so), and that Portmarnock is too flat and unattractive (I must have played a different course).   Even without having played OH, I can affirmatively say that NO, I could not have designed a better course.  The numbers (20-30+) speak for themselves.

Same here, Lou. Before our Ireland trip in 2016, I was urged and almost ordered to put Old Head on the itinerary, but I resisted and don't feel I missed anything but great views. Last year my club sent 24 guys to Ireland, with Old Head one of the courses on the schedule. All came back raving about the view, but no one thought it was a particularly good golf course, and several were scared out of their wits by the proximity of some holes to the steep cliffs.
Seems to me they should have built 12 decent holes and stayed away from the edges. Americans would flock to the course anyway.

[Jason Topp]

I never have regretted my visit to Old Head.  While I prefer to play other courses I cannot think of many locations I would prefer to visit.

[Tom_Doak]

Oddly, today I clicked on some story about the "top 10 most expensive courses in the world" and Old Head was on the list.  It could well be that a lot of people love it because it has good views and because it's expensive, so it must be good.[size=78%]  [/size]



The author of the article [which was not that well researched] credited the course design to John and Patrick O'Connor ... the brothers who developed it.

[Ira Fishman]

Do not underestimate the influence and power of the golf tour companies. A potential client contacts them about an Irish tour anchored by a round at Ballybunion which is the course most Americans know. The company sends pictures of Old Head with a description of the lodging, and it ends up on the schedule.  And most clients are happy because of the beauty and the lodging so the cycle repeats itself.


Ira

[Ben Hollerbach]

I never have regretted my visit to Old Head.  While I prefer to play other courses I cannot think of many locations I would prefer to visit.

Which is why it's so disappointing that the golf is nowhere near the same level as the grounds. If the course can't be any better than it is, I would have preferred to explore the land as a hike and removed all of the hubabalu that comes with the high end golf experience they're selling.