Golf Architect George Cobb

[Carlyle Rood]

Would anyone have any recommendations for researching golf architect George Cobb?  Is anyone familiar with any of his original designs?

C

[Kris Spence]

Carlyle, you should contact John Lafoy in Greenville, SC.  He worked for Mr. Cobb and has alot of his old plans etc.  I dont have his contact number, however, you can retrieve it off of the ASGCA site.

[Carlyle Rood]

KSpence:

Great!  Thanks for your help.

C

[Jason Mandel]

i think cobb did the golf course at University of Maryland, I would call there or check with the school's library McKeldin Library, md's gen number is 301-405-1000.

jason

[Tommy_Naccarato]

Carlyle,
You can start by researching the wonderful work he did on #8 at Augusta under the direction of Clifford Roberts--that should be all you need to know about the man.

[Carlyle Rood]

Carlyle,
You can start by researching the wonderful work he did on #8 at Augusta under the direction of Clifford Roberts--that should be all you need to know about the man.

If you feel so passionately that I should judge an entire architect's career on the basis of one hole that he modified, then perhaps you should share why this hole is so remarkable.

[Tommy_Naccarato]

Carlyle,
Th 8th at Augusta, while I have never seen it in person, was at one time one of the great green complexes at Augusta. At least in the terms of what the Great Dr. Alister MacKenize thought was a great. (Just between you and I, I'll put his work against Cobb's anytime)

the two large hillocks to the left of the green were part pf the strategy, and they were similar to the existing ones you see today, only they had more character to them, as well as played more intot he strategy of the green itself. While it would be true that the green might have a problem with today's green speeds, It was still an amazing green with a variety of pin placements.

I was looking last night to include in my original tirade, I thought it was Baxter Spann's words on the green, because I think it was he and Joe Finger, along with Byron Nelson put the green back after it had been razed. Cobb's work at Augusta, more specifically at the 8th was a sore bone of contention between Bobby Jones and Clifford Roberts, and it was just one of the many things that destroyed their friendship. I had also read many times that it took many attempts to get the green back as close as possible--and it took many different forms. Even Byron Nelson was quoted as saying that he felt they got the final one close, but it as still far from the character of the original.

Should Cobb's work at Augusta be viewed as a blight on the rest of his career? Probably not, but it should set the tone of just how bad of a place golf architecture was at the time and place, as well as how the most storied people--in this case Robertscan even make the biggest of mistakes, especially when it is ego driven. (All this from a man that not nly had a certain friendship and professional relatonship with the Great Dr. Alister MacKenzie, but also who would eventually rip him off.)

[Carlyle Rood]

Carlyle,
Th 8th at Augusta, while I have never seen it in person, was at one time one of the great green complexes at Augusta. At least in the terms of what the Great Dr. Alister MacKenize thought was a great. (Just between you and I, I'll put his work against Cobb's anytime)

(I'll put MacKenzie's work against anyone's.)

I am entirely unfamiliar with George Cobb's body of work.  My curiousity was piqued simply because I noticed that Bob Jones selected Cobb's illustrations to be included in a Sports Illustrated article (6 April 1959).

I was pretty confident you had a strong opinion about the 8th at Augusta (and I was very interested in hearing it), so I confess to baiting you to answer!  

C

[BCrosby]

Geo. Cobb remodeled East Lake for the 1962(?) Ryder Cup. I do not know how extensive his changes were. I would love to hear from anyone that has any information.

East Lake had 36 holes at the time. A composite course was played for the Ryder Cup matches.

Old timers in ATL say that the NLE 18 was was the best of the two.

Bob

[Tommy_Naccarato]

Carlyle,
I kind of figured it was that way!

Bob,
What are your opinions of the 8th green at Augusta, both original and post Cobb?

Also, didn't I read somewhere that Cobb got into Augusta because of his relationship to Ty, and the immortal slugger's friendship with Roberts?

[david h. carroll]

Cobb did some of the first resort courses on HHI...in Sea Pines, both Sea Marsh and the Ocean course are his and to the best of my recollection have been untouched.  They are rather boring, flat and typical late 60's resort style.  I believe he also did 27 holes at the Shipyard plantation there and I think he did the course at Port Royal in HHI as well.

[JNC Lyon]

I think he did Ocean Point at Fripp Island, SC.

[BCrosby]

Tommy -

Cobb, at the behest of Roberts (and over the objection of Jones, as I recall) changed the green complex at no. 8 in the 50's. He built a circular putting surface that looked like a green flying saucer embedded in a halo of sand. (Not unlike - I sheepishly add - a Raynor template Short Hole.)

The change was not very popular, but no one dared touch the hole until after Robert's death. In 1978 Nelson and Finger (with a Spann assist) were commissioned to fix it. They decided, with the support of the club, to restore the green complex to Mack's original design. They did a wonderful job. The only changed feature at ANGC that has been restored.

I don't know much about George Cobb's relationship with Ty Cobb or Cliff Roberts. I know that Ty Cobb was close to Bobby Jones. (An unlikely friendship to be sure.)

Bobby Jones did hire G. Cobb for the 1962 redo of East Lake, so Jones and G. Cobb must have had some sort of relationship. But more than that, I don't know.

Bob

[john_stiles]

Let's see here.....Looking thru my C& W,   I have played

Cleghorn in North Carolina
Fripp Island in South Carolina
Sea Palms in Georgia
Myrtlewood, MB, SC
Port Royal cluster in Hilton Head
Shipyard cluster in Hilton Head
Surf GC, MB
Snee Farm, SC
Glade Springs in West Virginia

Since I am not big on that early Hilton Head and Mytle Beach era,  my re-visits (if a really good friend invited me and the weekend was free) could only be to Cleghorn, Glade Springs, Snee Farm, and the Surf GC.  Surf is actually a nice relaxing country club type layout vs the typical get out of car, rush thru the shop, get in the cart, get in line at the tee, 5 hour round, cart-ball layout in MB.  Surf might be my favorite as you can easily walk and it is fun to play.

Have not played Cat Island (down the road from Secession) and have heard reasonable reports re: Cat Island.

Have not played Quail Hollow in Charlotte. Was that a Bobby Jones/Charlotte (Augusta members)/Arnie connection ?

Of most interest from the 'not played', would be Quail Hollow, Cat Island, Linville Ridge, and maybe Pine Tree in Birmingham, and Still Waters also in Alabama. Any thoughts on that group ?

C&W's last line about Mr. Cobb is  "Cobb prided himself in providing attractive, playable layouts that resort players found enjoyable, not frustrating."

[Carlyle Rood]

john_stiles:

Thanks for your reply.  I've actually played the Surf Club before a few times.  We used to have cottages at Cherry Grove (before condominiums and high-rises took over).  It's been probably ten years since I last played it.  I don't recall a great deal about it, except that--as you said--it was a pleasant walk and was not overcrowded.

I wonder if I should go back to Myrtle Beach for a vacation.  I can recall sitting at the Old Pro's Table during the 1980s and mentioning to my father how remarkable it was now that there were OVER A DOZEN courses!  I think that's where I first learned the distinction between Robert TYRE Jones and Robert TRENT Jones (The Dunes GC).

C

[Lynn_Shackelford]

George Cobb did a muny in the City of Atlanta.  It is called Brownsmill.  A solid straightforward layout with some drainage issues and one of golf's worst clubhouses.
Shipyard in HH.  Cobb did the original 18, which I like.  Willard Byrd did the 3rd 9, which I found disappointing.

[Willie_Dow]

As I've said before I liked the routing of Cleghorn Plantation.  It has been through financial troubles which led to poor upkeep, and then less play.

Cobb was a pioneer of golf at Hilton Head, at a time when many newbies were taking up the game.  Make it fun so they will come back!  And they did.

[john_stiles]

Carlyle,

Sidebar to your last note,  Ahhhhhhhh........The Old Pro's Table.  Thanks for bringing that up.  That could be a separate thread by itself.  Always liked the steaks,  looking at the club ties at the front counter area, and then looking at the golfing items displayed about the place.  

Wonderful golf stuff in those days of late 1970s/80s for me.

Can't remember date of my last visit to Old Pro's Table. May have been in the mid 1990s.  Understand it is gone.....finally sold several years ago now.

What happened to the old golf stuff ?

Re: MB and your question... best prices for MB are coming up soon.... usually best prices are right after Thanksgiving if I recall.