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Carl Johnson

  • Karma: +0/-0
Westhampton Country Club Fly-over
« on: August 12, 2014, 03:41:12 PM »
I understand this was Raynor's first solo effort.  Never been there, and doesn't look like my cup of tea, but certainly interesting.

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=-QKhntjZWh4

Patrick_Mucci

Re: Westhampton Country Club Fly-over
« Reply #1 on: August 12, 2014, 05:44:05 PM »

I understand this was Raynor's first solo effort. 

Never been there, and doesn't look like my cup of tea, but certainly interesting.

Then you'd better change your brand of tea.

Westhampton is a TERRIFIC golf course, and, it gets buffeted by the WIND.


http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=-QKhntjZWh4


Carl Johnson

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Westhampton Country Club Fly-over
« Reply #2 on: August 12, 2014, 08:13:32 PM »

I understand this was Raynor's first solo effort.  

Never been there, and doesn't look like my cup of tea, but certainly interesting.

Then you'd better change your brand of tea.

Patrick, from the bottom of my heart, I'd like to be able to do that . . . but, never been there, so when I said it "doesn't look like my cup of tee," that's what I meant.  From the air . . . doesn't look like it would suit me.  But, never having been there, my final judgment is reserved.

Westhampton is a TERRIFIC golf course, and, it gets buffeted by the WIND.


What I was hoping is that those who had been there, whoever they may be (you?), could give this discussion group a hole-by-hole critique of the course, using this fly-by.

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=-QKhntjZWh4

« Last Edit: August 12, 2014, 08:34:41 PM by Carl Johnson »

Patrick_Mucci

Re: Westhampton Country Club Fly-over
« Reply #3 on: August 12, 2014, 10:46:01 PM »
Carl,

It's an interesting blend of short and long holes, starting with the first hole which has demolished many a round despite it's very short length.

# 1 is well bunkered in the DZ, has a moat fronting the multi-tiered green and a swamp behind the green.

A birdie and double bogey hole all in one.

Plenty of template holes, Punchbowl, Redan, Short, Biarritz, Plateau, etc., etc..

A very enjoyable play that's got plenty of challenge, especially when the wind comes up, which is often.

I think there was a detailed thread about Westhampton, involving myself, Tom MacWood and others.

jeffwarne

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Westhampton Country Club Fly-over
« Reply #4 on: August 12, 2014, 10:57:22 PM »
Westhampton
very understated and subtle, yet often bold
fun
definitely my cup of tea

My son has an interclub there tomorrow which is going to be rained out.
Pity as I was looking forward to chaperoning and walking the course

I hate walking courses and not playing and rarely ever do....
"Let's slow the damned greens down a bit, not take the character out of them." Tom Doak
"Take their focus off the grass and put it squarely on interesting golf." Don Mahaffey

David_Tepper

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Westhampton Country Club Fly-over
« Reply #5 on: August 12, 2014, 11:10:27 PM »
In addition to all the water in play, I counted 130 bunkers on the course (and I probably missed a few!). Are most Raynor courses so heavily bunkered? 

Patrick_Mucci

Re: Westhampton Country Club Fly-over
« Reply #6 on: August 12, 2014, 11:12:53 PM »

In addition to all the water in play, I counted 130 bunkers on the course (and I probably missed a few!). Are most Raynor courses so heavily bunkered? 

David,

I think you'll find a high degree of similarity in the bunkering on the template holes.

I'd be interested in knowing the bunker count at Southampton.

And, don't forget that many courses filled in their bunkers since opening day.


David_Tepper

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Westhampton Country Club Fly-over
« Reply #7 on: August 12, 2014, 11:14:46 PM »
Pat -

That is a lot of rakes! ;)

DT 

Jon Cavalier

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Westhampton Country Club Fly-over
« Reply #8 on: August 12, 2014, 11:59:49 PM »
I, for one, would love to drink this tea.
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Tommy Naccarato

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Westhampton Country Club Fly-over
« Reply #9 on: August 13, 2014, 02:09:48 AM »
I understand this was Raynor's first solo effort.  Never been there, and doesn't look like my cup of tea, but certainly interesting.

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=-QKhntjZWh4


Carl,
I have been fortunate to see Westhampton closely on an architecture level, first with a great tour with its former longtime superintendent and former contributor to this website in its early years, Mike Rewinski. Over a period of time the course had degenerated (softened) and being that this exquisite, high end club wanted to maintain the least amount of change possible, allowed Mike to make changes to the course that were either restorative or additions to battle the ever changing distance of the golf ball. Mike being Mike, he made a lot of changes that made little sense in a Raynor sense for many years.

In 2010, Rewinski more or less retired from the club and Gil Hanse was retained to do a master plan, and along with this websites now departed dear friend, Uncle George Bahto, restored in the proper sense, Westhampton's most important features.  From the looks of it, Uncle George's swan song is a complete success and I wish he could have seen this flyover as proof of it--then again, maybe he is flying with the angels over it every day!

As Pat posts, the architecture is electric, and my favorites have been made better to some degree, as the bones for four great one-shot holes was there, the first being the Punchbowl, which is a punchbowl like no other! Seriously a type of architecture in an age that golf holes were designed for specific shot-making.  The Redan 7th, which was hard to see from the tee, looks like its more hazardous features have been exposed and enlivened. The Short sits in a very windy area of the course, where the winds could spell death on a highly entertaining putting surface. The Biarritz 17th's bones were always so obvious, yet in my talks with Mr. Rewinski he didn't have much love for the idea of restoring the hole, more changing putting contours there over the years as he explained to me.  From the looks of it, Gil and Uncle George took complete advantage of the corridor and created what looks like a respectable Biarritz of the Raynor fashion!

One of tmy favorite favorite features of Westhampton are the "hay stacks/chocolate drops and running ridges in various areas around the course, all depicting golf architecture in America from a "toddler-like" place in time. To jump on type of this dog pile, I cannot understand why something like that could not be someone's "cup of tea." regardless of your interpretation, you should be using it more as a positive to open your mind, tune in and turn on and most, check out the Westhampton Golf Club....

Cristian

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Westhampton Country Club Fly-over
« Reply #10 on: August 13, 2014, 07:02:20 AM »
The course is fantastic looking. Trying to identify the template holes is always a challenge with dept perception hard from a flyover.

2=Leven?, 3=Punchbowl?,  7=Redan, 8=Alps?, 11 Short, 17 Biarritz

The Biarritz is one of the most beautiful ones I have ever seen, however one thing puzzles me: The combination of bunkering in front of the green and the front part maintained as green seems odd for a course of this era, as with hickory equipment it would have been impossible to carry the bunkers and hold the part of the green, in front of the swale.

Have the bunkers been changed over time? Or was the front part of the green deemed not pinnable or not to be maintained as green?

Thomas Dai

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Westhampton Country Club Fly-over
« Reply #11 on: August 13, 2014, 08:07:09 AM »
Interesting and eye opening so thank you for highlighting. The flyover is nice to see. Looks like it would fascinating to play.

History lesson time:- I'm not very familiar with the background of early US course designers/constructers. Did the folk who designed/built courses such as this have military engineering backgrounds? Some of the features seem very fortification like (no slight intended).

atb

Mark McKeever

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Westhampton Country Club Fly-over
« Reply #12 on: August 13, 2014, 08:27:33 AM »
Pat, The course pretty neat having not seen the course before.

Using the bing map birds eye view it looks like there are a few random bunkers in between the holes that have been lost over time.

Can you comment on if that's true?  Are they back now or going to be brought back?

Mark
Best MGA showers - Bayonne

"Dude, he's a total d***"

Mike Sweeney

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Westhampton Country Club Fly-over New
« Reply #13 on: August 17, 2018, 08:17:35 AM »
Finally played it, and it was a "Mucci Wind" day. I loved it and all reports were that the Gil Hanse redo was well done. A perfect everyday course. The terrain is on the flatter side, and if it was a little more "Southampton"(rolling hills), I would give it another bump up.


Doak 7+
« Last Edit: August 17, 2018, 08:20:38 AM by Mike Sweeney »
"One of the saddest lessons of history is this: If we’ve been bamboozled long enough, we tend to reject any evidence of the bamboozle. We’re no longer interested in finding out the truth. The bamboozle has captured us."

Dr. Carl Sagan, The Demon-Haunted World: Science as a Candle in the Dark