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Marty Bonnar

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Carnoustie setting the standard
« on: February 01, 2018, 08:21:36 AM »

Great news for this year’s Open venue. Well done for taking a lead in the direction every golf course should (must?) be striving towards.

http://www.golf-monthly.co.uk/news/carnoustie-wins-environmental-golf-course-of-the-year-2018-149905


F.
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The White River runs dark through the heart of the Town,
Washed the people coal-black from the hole in the ground.

Tom_Doak

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Re: Carnoustie setting the standard
« Reply #1 on: February 01, 2018, 09:42:21 AM »
Wait ... Carnoustie Golf Links has a Chief Executive Officer?
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Andy Stamm

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Re: Carnoustie setting the standard
« Reply #2 on: February 01, 2018, 10:20:55 AM »
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Kalen Braley

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Re: Carnoustie setting the standard
« Reply #3 on: February 01, 2018, 10:48:49 AM »
Can't let all that efficiently saved money go to waste...  ;D



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Marty Bonnar

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Carnoustie setting the standard
« Reply #4 on: February 01, 2018, 10:58:18 AM »
Quote from: Tom_Doak on February 01, 2018, 09:42:21 AM
Wait ... Carnoustie Golf Links has a Chief Executive Officer?


Well, they are a ‘business’...
Can’t let St Andrews have the only Scottish golf destination CEO!
 ;)
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The White River runs dark through the heart of the Town,
Washed the people coal-black from the hole in the ground.

Peter Pallotta

Re: Carnoustie setting the standard
« Reply #5 on: February 01, 2018, 01:46:07 PM »
Btw, I know everyone has different tastes, but to me that's one heck of a beautiful golf course -- from 'ground level' especially.
If one day I could only play one, sure, it would be hard not to pick St Andrews...but I think I might. It doesn't have as long a history, but at least it has Ben Hogan's. 
Good to see that an environmental award exists, and that Carnoustie won it. Golf in GB&I is clearly being influenced by America and American visitors, but I don't think the days of the two-way street are over yet; it's influence, I think, can & will be felt over here on at least the environmental front. 
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Marty Bonnar

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Re: Carnoustie setting the standard
« Reply #6 on: February 01, 2018, 02:13:34 PM »
PP,
I’m generally not big on ‘Awards’. (Can’t stand creative industry’s back-slapping nonsense).
However, this one is so important that I felt the need to share here. We (this website, DG, contributors and lurkers) have a unique opportunity to take a lead and bring at least some influence to what I think is the most important issue facing the Industry today.
For example, I’d like to think that, along with more usual ‘measures’, it would be great if a golf course rater might also have the chance to place a value on a Course’s environmental credentials as a portion of their rating. That would certainly help establish environmental responsibility and the use of more sustainable practices in Course management as a real-world requirement. It’s not difficult, it’s not rocket-science, it’s not very sexy, but it is necessary.
As a teeny example, I’ll never forget visiting Turnberry’s maintenance facility and seeing, IIRC, maybe ONE bag of fertiliser and ONE bag of weed killer.
That spoke volumes to me. (It WAS pre-Trump, of course!) ;D
Cheers,
F.
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The White River runs dark through the heart of the Town,
Washed the people coal-black from the hole in the ground.

Ed Brzezowski

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Carnoustie setting the standard
« Reply #7 on: February 01, 2018, 02:37:18 PM »
I loved the course but never knew there was a high power rifle range next door.
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Sean_A

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Carnoustie setting the standard
« Reply #8 on: February 01, 2018, 03:20:22 PM »
So, what is the standard Carnoustie is setting?  What exactly does it do that is wonderful?

Ciao
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Kalen Braley

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Re: Carnoustie setting the standard
« Reply #9 on: February 01, 2018, 03:37:42 PM »
Quote from: Sean_A on February 01, 2018, 03:20:22 PM
So, what is the standard Carnoustie is setting?  What exactly does it do that is wonderful?

Ciao


"demonstrate expert efficiency in nature conservation management, turf grass management, waste management, and water management."
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Ally Mcintosh

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Carnoustie setting the standard
« Reply #10 on: February 01, 2018, 03:41:43 PM »
Quote from: Marty Bonnar on February 01, 2018, 02:13:34 PM
PP,
I’m generally not big on ‘Awards’. (Can’t stand creative industry’s back-slapping nonsense).
However, this one is so important that I felt the need to share here. We (this website, DG, contributors and lurkers) have a unique opportunity to take a lead and bring at least some influence to what I think is the most important issue facing the Industry today.
For example, I’d like to think that, along with more usual ‘measures’, it would be great if a golf course rater might also have the chance to place a value on a Course’s environmental credentials as a portion of their rating. That would certainly help establish environmental responsibility and the use of more sustainable practices in Course management as a real-world requirement. It’s not difficult, it’s not rocket-science, it’s not very sexy, but it is necessary.
As a teeny example, I’ll never forget visiting Turnberry’s maintenance facility and seeing, IIRC, maybe ONE bag of fertiliser and ONE bag of weed killer.
That spoke volumes to me. (It WAS pre-Trump, of course!) ;D
Cheers,
F.


This post wins
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Tom_Doak

  • Karma: +1/-1
Re: Carnoustie setting the standard
« Reply #11 on: February 01, 2018, 04:14:07 PM »
Quote from: Marty Bonnar on February 01, 2018, 02:13:34 PM
PP,
I’m generally not big on ‘Awards’. (Can’t stand creative industry’s back-slapping nonsense).
However, this one is so important that I felt the need to share here. We (this website, DG, contributors and lurkers) have a unique opportunity to take a lead and bring at least some influence to what I think is the most important issue facing the Industry today.
For example, I’d like to think that, along with more usual ‘measures’, it would be great if a golf course rater might also have the chance to place a value on a Course’s environmental credentials as a portion of their rating. That would certainly help establish environmental responsibility and the use of more sustainable practices in Course management as a real-world requirement. It’s not difficult, it’s not rocket-science, it’s not very sexy, but it is necessary.
As a teeny example, I’ll never forget visiting Turnberry’s maintenance facility and seeing, IIRC, maybe ONE bag of fertiliser and ONE bag of weed killer.
That spoke volumes to me. (It WAS pre-Trump, of course!) ;D
Cheers,
F.


Marty:


I'll never forget Walter Woods's fertilizer storage for St. Andrews in 1982:  he went and harvested a bunch of kelp off the rocks behind where the R & A Museum stands today, brought it back and put it in a compost pile with a bunch of sand, and waited.  He had a tiny budget to maintain 72 holes and he didn't want to spend it on fertilizer.


When I went up to Dornoch and came back, I asked him what was the reddish moss they had on some greens.  He was very impressed by that ... he said you could only have that if you were maintaining the golf course on extremely low fertility :)   But he had never been to Dornoch because it was too far of a drive back then  :)
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Marty Bonnar

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Carnoustie setting the standard
« Reply #12 on: February 01, 2018, 04:39:11 PM »
Quote from: Tom_Doak on February 01, 2018, 04:14:07 PM
Quote from: Marty Bonnar on February 01, 2018, 02:13:34 PM
PP,
I’m generally not big on ‘Awards’. (Can’t stand creative industry’s back-slapping nonsense).
However, this one is so important that I felt the need to share here. We (this website, DG, contributors and lurkers) have a unique opportunity to take a lead and bring at least some influence to what I think is the most important issue facing the Industry today.
For example, I’d like to think that, along with more usual ‘measures’, it would be great if a golf course rater might also have the chance to place a value on a Course’s environmental credentials as a portion of their rating. That would certainly help establish environmental responsibility and the use of more sustainable practices in Course management as a real-world requirement. It’s not difficult, it’s not rocket-science, it’s not very sexy, but it is necessary.
As a teeny example, I’ll never forget visiting Turnberry’s maintenance facility and seeing, IIRC, maybe ONE bag of fertiliser and ONE bag of weed killer.
That spoke volumes to me. (It WAS pre-Trump, of course!) ;D
Cheers,
F.


Marty:


I'll never forget Walter Woods's fertilizer storage for St. Andrews in 1982:  he went and harvested a bunch of kelp off the rocks behind where the R & A Museum stands today, brought it back and put it in a compost pile with a bunch of sand, and waited.  He had a tiny budget to maintain 72 holes and he didn't want to spend it on fertilizer.


When I went up to Dornoch and came back, I asked him what was the reddish moss they had on some greens.  He was very impressed by that ... he said you could only have that if you were maintaining the golf course on extremely low fertility :)   But he had never been to Dornoch because it was too far of a drive back then  :)


Tom,
I’m happy to say I think Kingsbarns is following in the ‘frugal’ tradition. I spent a not inconsiderable time (the entirety of last summer) closely examining the greenswards there! Yes, there’s wee patches of green and red mosses, there’s minor ‘infestations’ of more broadleaves, there’s a few even slightly bare patches, but the greens are extremely playable, true, predictable. The only complaints I heard were that they were a bit slow, but as soon as a golfer experiences a Scottish zephyr or two, they come to understand completely!
Cheers,
M.
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The White River runs dark through the heart of the Town,
Washed the people coal-black from the hole in the ground.

Colin Macqueen

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Carnoustie setting the standard
« Reply #13 on: February 01, 2018, 05:04:40 PM »
Ed,


The ".......  high power rifle range next door" is called Barry Buddon (the Barry comes from Barry in Angus the site of the training area.  And of course there is Barry Burn. Marty, is the area still called Angus?).


Many a time as I caddied as a laddie the crack of rifles or crackling of machine guns would make one's golfer start!


Interesting that Carnoustie has picked up this award and as it happens maybe they made a virtue out of necessity. Wikipedia describes the army range area thus:


 " Most of the training area is a Site of Special Scientific Interest (SSSI) and an EU Special Area of Conservation(SAC), as well as a Special Protection Area (SPA) for birds under the European Birds Directive."[/size][/font]
[/size][/color]
[/size]Cheers Colin[/color]
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"Golf, thou art a gentle sprite, I owe thee much"
The Hielander

Marty Bonnar

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Re: Carnoustie setting the standard
« Reply #14 on: February 01, 2018, 05:40:42 PM »
Col,
I’m sure you’ve gazed - even more often than I have - over the fence alongside Hogan’s Alley and wondered how many incredible golf holes are over there.
I’m just not sure how the Rules of Golf deal with unexploded ordnance. I do recall some post-war local rules from the courses around London...
Best,
M.


PS Angus is still Angus. Funny story for people in the know: an old colleague of mine who lives in Birkhill (West of Dundee) in Angus had to send his kids all the way around the city to school in the East (Broughty or Monifieth IIRC).  Ha!
« Last Edit: February 01, 2018, 05:47:11 PM by Marty Bonnar »
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The White River runs dark through the heart of the Town,
Washed the people coal-black from the hole in the ground.

Marty Bonnar

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Carnoustie setting the standard
« Reply #15 on: February 02, 2018, 08:50:17 PM »
Interestingly, the ‘greenest show on grass’ is on TV this very weekend.
Well done. I hope they are genuinely practicing what they preach!


F.
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The White River runs dark through the heart of the Town,
Washed the people coal-black from the hole in the ground.

BCrosby

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Re: Carnoustie setting the standard
« Reply #16 on: February 03, 2018, 10:43:11 AM »
OT question for TD: Was it Walter Woods who found the drawings for The New Course sometime in the 1970's in a maintenance shed?


Bob
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Kalen Braley

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Re: Carnoustie setting the standard
« Reply #17 on: February 03, 2018, 12:28:42 PM »
Marty,


Not to rain on the parade, and I may be wrong here...


But isn't a lot easier to maintain a course in that part of the world based on its local climate?  Cool temps year round, plenty of moisture, limited cart traffic, no prolonged hot spells or massive temp swings.


While I think the UK golf model would be terrific in general here in the states, how practical would it be to implement the maintaince meld part of it?
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Marty Bonnar

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Carnoustie setting the standard
« Reply #18 on: February 03, 2018, 02:39:18 PM »
Kalen,
I’d suggest that each and every different climate type would bring its own challenges, opportunities, advantages and disadvantages.
Ideally, any accreditation procedure would be adapted to suit these variations.
The KEY is that practices are tailored to the locality but always with sustainability and environmental responsibility in mind.
Cheers,
M.
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The White River runs dark through the heart of the Town,
Washed the people coal-black from the hole in the ground.

Thomas Dai

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Re: Carnoustie setting the standard
« Reply #19 on: February 03, 2018, 02:55:50 PM »
Quote from: Ed Brzezowski on February 01, 2018, 02:37:18 PM
I loved the course but never knew there was a high power rifle range next door.


My recollection from the early 1980’s is that there was another rifle range that ran alongside/parallel to the 6th fairway, where the Budden course now is. Is my now distant memory correct?
Atb
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