[Bret Lawrence]

Ben,


Woodway's 8th and 13th are two of the shorter Par 4's on the course.  I prefer 8 over 13, but both holes are very good.  10 is also a good hole, but the green is perched on one of the highest points on the property and the slope of the green is almost too severe for today's modern green speeds.  In the CT Open they had to put the pin in the back for all three rounds, because only half of the green is pinnable at the speeds they maintain.  If you hit anywhere short of center on the green you are chipping for your next shot.


CT also has Madison Country Club, CC of New Canaan and Tumble Brook.  Each course contains nine holes designed by Willie Park Jr.  I have never played Tumble Brook or CC of New Canaan.  I have played Madison, but I really don't know which holes are Parks and which holes are Orrin Smith's or Brian Silva's.


Has anyone played CC of New Bedford?  I used to drive by there a lot when I lived in Massachusetts and it looks like it has some interesting holes.


Bret

[BCowan]

Bret,

   Thanks for your post.  The Woodway 10th edgy green I like, the 7th at Inverness they can't use front half with today's green speeds.  Bret, so Woodway 8th or Woodway 10th?  Need 1-2 more par 5's on the back 9.   

 I was just looking up WPJ Birthday this morning and it is today!  He would have been 153 years old. 

4 February 1864
 Musselburgh, Scotland

[Bret Lawrence]

Ben,


Thanks for the information on Willie's birthday.  Happy Birthday Willie!


I would stick with the 8th at Woodway, considering that hole was originally nominated by Kyle.  I think if we were playing a match, many would prefer to play the 8th to the 10th.  8 is just good solid architecture while 10 certainly has a little quirk to it.  The green on the 8th hole at Woodway, like so many Willie Park green complexes is terrific.


I also noticed Tim didn't like my nomination for Shuttle Meadow's 18th.  I know Tim loves Shuttle Meadow too.  In defense of my selection I agree the 18th hole can be a little bland for the first few hundred yards, but the excitement begins with the approach to the green.  Whether it is a 200+ yards shot or a short pitch, you must be deftly accurate.  The green is spectacular with three distinct tiers that make recoveries more than you bargained for.  I would prefer to end a match at 18 on Shuttle Meadow or watch a match conclude there compared to 18 at New Haven.  Of course if we are talking about Tour players, 18 at New Haven would probably be a better venue.  I also wonder if Shuttle Meadow decided to make 18 a Par 4, would it still be considered one of the weaker holes on the course?


Bret

[Pete Lavallee]

As a native of New Bedford I played CC of NB a couple of times before I left for good in 1978. The original 9 holes are attributed to W Park with the newer 9 done by D Ross. Those holes are the 6 that are across Slocum Road and the 2 that parallel Hathaway Roaddown to the intersection with Route 6. The volcano par 3 is also a Ross hole there at the bottom of the hill. The 3 Park holes that stand out are the 4th a long 520 yard par 5 up the hill next to Route 6. Bosox great Jim Rice reached this one in 2 with a persimmon driver and a 6 iron! The next hole #5 is a fine long par 4 in of 459 yards and the next hole #6 a nice short par 4 with a well defended green site which if memory serves me correctly sits on a large rock outcropping.

[BCowan]

Thanks for the info Bret and Pete.  Need help filling in #10 and #13.  Trying to get some other courses to fill those slots.  10 at Battle is good and 13 at Berkshire was recommended I recall. 

1.    New Haven                          4
2.    Flint                                        3
3.    Olympia Fields N                4
4.    Berkshire                              5
5.    Minneapolis                         4
6.    Greate Bay                             5
7.    Penn State (W)                    3     
8.    Woodway                              4
9.    Maidstone                           4   

10. 
11.  Indiana                                  5
12.  Sylvania                               4
13.                               
14.  Maidstone                           3
15.  Olympia Fields N               5
16.  Philmont                               4
17.  Red Run                                3
18.  Battle Creek                        4

[MCirba]

13 at Berkleigh is a brute.

[Kyle Harris]

I've been lax in my response to Ben about the 7th on the White Course.

It's an uphill Par 3 of 170 or so yards. The bunkering is sublime, and despite the loss of one as a sand bunker, the shaping in grass is still keen. The shot is played over a large false-front which in firm conditions is possible to use to run a shot on to the flat. It's rare to see a well done uphill one-shotter. This is one of them. Removing a few pine tree long of the green would lead to a horizon view from the tee.

[Jeff Shelman]

I'm confused how the best hole at Olympia Fields North - No. 14 - isn't on the list. It is at least in the conversation for the best par 4 in Chicagoland.


And if we are talking 14s, I thought 14 at Red Run was one of the cooler holes there. It's not as good as Olympia North, but it was a cool hole with a good green complex.

[BCowan]

Jeff,

   Doak nominated 9 and 14 as being world class holes at Maidstone.  Olympia has 2 holes represented.  I highly doubt #14 at Red Run compares to the 14th at Maidstone but I could be wrong.  We are trying to get a course that fits with Good/Great/World class holes intertwined.   This isn't necessarily about the Best of the Best, It's just Peachy. 

  Now #10 and #13 need to be filled. 

Cirba,

   Did you mean Berkshire?

[Ryan Taylor]

#13 at RR is better than #17 imo. Probably the best green complex on the course. Just an idea if you have a strong #17 in your back pocket.

[Rick Shefchik]

The current #10 at Minneapolis Golf club was Park's original #14, but today I'd say it is the key to your round at MGC. If you're coming off the front nine with a respectable score, you're just hoping not to blow it all on #10. You're staring at a 220 yard shot from an elevated tee, over water, to an elevated green that falls off to all sides. Anything is possible here, from foozling a tee shot into the water, yanking one under the trees or OB left, blocking one into the trees on the right, flying the green and leaving an impossible up and down on a severely back-to-front sloping green, hitting the front left greenside bunker or the right greenside bunker, or just watching a slight miss trickle off the green and well away from the putting surface. And, yes, you can hit the 4-iron/hybrid/3 wood/driver of your life (depending on the wind) and make par or even birdie. Regardless of what happens, #10 can make or break your round.

[MCirba]

Jeff,

   Doak nominated 9 and 14 as being world class holes at Maidstone.  Olympia has 2 holes represented.  I highly doubt #14 at Red Run compares to the 14th at Maidstone but I could be wrong.  We are trying to get a course that fits with Good/Great/World class holes intertwined.   This isn't necessarily about the Best of the Best, It's just Peachy. 

  Now #10 and #13 need to be filled. 

Cirba,

   Did you mean Berkshire?

Yes.  #alternativefacts

[BCowan]

For the last hole the 13th hole, what do you say?  Looking for Par 5 of course not used. 

13th hole
CC of New Canaan 
Atlantic City CC
Marion CC (OH)

[BCowan]

The Par 3's are so solid at Flint that I had to put it in there for the 13th.  Willie seemed to not live by any rules, which i like.  That leaves us with 6 Par 3's. 

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