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Steve_ Shaffer

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Re: Philmont cc
« Reply #25 on: April 25, 2013, 07:05:07 PM »
Bill,

I've heard "looks like" many times for the entire North course, Both Woodway & Philmont seem to be on similar terrain. We know Park did  Woodway. As I noted above, the Ford article in the North American makes no mention of Flynn but does mention Park's plans were used and Strouse, the Philmont member who supervised construction, made field changes to Park's plans.  Philmont was relying on oral history for a Flynn attribution. Perhaps Toomey & Flynn, the construction company and not Flynn, the architect, built North but, again, Ford's article makes no mention of them either. Perhaps, as Joe Bausch noted, Flynn, as a grass expert, was called in during grow in to advise the club. But again, Ford's article makes no mention of him.
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"Some of us worship in churches, some in synagogues, some on golf courses ... "  Adlai Stevenson
Hyman Roth to Michael Corleone: "We're bigger than US Steel."
Ben Hogan “The most important shot in golf is the next one”

Doug Braunsdorf

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Re: Philmont cc
« Reply #26 on: April 25, 2013, 08:51:59 PM »
Bill,

  Respectfully, that view of 1 green at Philmont North also, upon thinking about it tonight, seems a little like our 8th hole green complex at Greate Bay.  (Park, 1923-1927 timeframe).  We met at Cricket last month--get in touch anytime and come down the AC Expressway if you haven't been here. 
  Philmont is on similar terrain as many Flynn-designed courses.  Stands to reason there could be similarities.  I just find it hard to believe that one receipt, journal entry, invoice, plan, note, etc, has not surfaced from any work done here, or even plans drawn but not carried out. 
  From my understanding of speaking to "those guys" that wrote the book, Flynn kept detailed, extensive records of work performed.  As Steve has said repeatedly, 'oral history', for what that is worth, has been the only thing going.  Why hasn't there been anything in writing surfacing?  No news articles? (for whatever they're worth). 
   
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"Never approach a bull from the front, a horse from the rear, or a fool from any direction."

Bill Shotzbarger

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Philmont cc
« Reply #27 on: April 25, 2013, 11:42:09 PM »
Steve and Doug,

I'm not arguing that Flynn designed it! I've read all of the posts, heard both sides of the argument. Mrs. Shotz raised ugly children not stupid!

As I said earlier, the other 17 holes DON'T look like Flynn to me. And as I told Wayne, in my opinion, there's no way Flynn would ever have designed that god-awful 9th hole.  :P

It just dawned on me yesterday that 1 north really, really looks and plays like a Flynn hole. That is all I'm saying. And that was the purpose of my post.

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Steve_ Shaffer

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Re: Philmont cc
« Reply #28 on: April 26, 2013, 12:34:12 PM »
Bill,

The 9th at North is a very simple hole:  Just keep it left.   :)
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"Some of us worship in churches, some in synagogues, some on golf courses ... "  Adlai Stevenson
Hyman Roth to Michael Corleone: "We're bigger than US Steel."
Ben Hogan “The most important shot in golf is the next one”

Doug Braunsdorf

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Philmont cc
« Reply #29 on: April 29, 2013, 09:53:31 PM »
Bumping in support of Truth in Advertising  ;) ;D
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"Never approach a bull from the front, a horse from the rear, or a fool from any direction."

Doug Braunsdorf

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Re: Philmont cc
« Reply #30 on: May 01, 2013, 07:45:08 PM »


Please see the second paragraph.  Candidly, we can make an argument either way or another for journalism, as some threads have parsed intent to no end, and some articles have been proven to be faulty.  This was shared with me earlier today.  I seem to recall one of us here postulated that Park did the plans which were carried out by Strouse, et al. 
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"Never approach a bull from the front, a horse from the rear, or a fool from any direction."

Steve_ Shaffer

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Re: Philmont cc
« Reply #31 on: May 01, 2013, 08:26:10 PM »


Interesting article I received from Mike Cirba. Note the date and details. Another confirmation of a Park provenance.

If someone can tell me how to enlarge it, I will.

Essentially, Bernard Gimbel, Philmont president,  purchased the property in 1921 and Park and the club pro will lay out the course.

« Last Edit: May 02, 2013, 02:07:58 AM by Steve_ Shaffer »
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"Some of us worship in churches, some in synagogues, some on golf courses ... "  Adlai Stevenson
Hyman Roth to Michael Corleone: "We're bigger than US Steel."
Ben Hogan “The most important shot in golf is the next one”

mike_malone

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Re: Philmont cc
« Reply #32 on: May 01, 2013, 09:20:02 PM »
There were 2 features that made me doubt Flynn's work. First the bunkering often flanked the greens rather than being set at an angle and secondly there were chocolate mounds at the back of greens rather than the Flynn pullups.
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AKA Mayday

Steve_ Shaffer

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Re: Philmont cc
« Reply #33 on: May 06, 2013, 09:33:28 AM »
Concerning the article I posted above, I've been able to enlarge it and now  advise that the cost of the new 18 hole course was estimated to be $100, 000 . Jules Mastbaum, a prominent real estate developer and chairman of the Greens Committee. completed the purchase of the required acreage,  The club had 600 members and Ellis Gimbel was the President of the club since its inception.


The headline reads:

PHILMONT COUNTRY CLUB PURCHASES ADDITIONAL LAND FOR NEW 18 HOLE COURSE
« Last Edit: May 06, 2013, 09:38:18 AM by Steve_ Shaffer »
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"Some of us worship in churches, some in synagogues, some on golf courses ... "  Adlai Stevenson
Hyman Roth to Michael Corleone: "We're bigger than US Steel."
Ben Hogan “The most important shot in golf is the next one”

Steve_ Shaffer

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Philmont cc
« Reply #34 on: August 13, 2014, 02:50:44 PM »
I remember posting an earlier article on the deal but can't find it here so here is breaking news....

http://www.philly.com/philly/blogs/inq-phillydeals/Toll-Bros-Country-club-deal-is-dead.html
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"Some of us worship in churches, some in synagogues, some on golf courses ... "  Adlai Stevenson
Hyman Roth to Michael Corleone: "We're bigger than US Steel."
Ben Hogan “The most important shot in golf is the next one”

Matt Frey, PGA

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Re: Philmont cc
« Reply #35 on: August 14, 2014, 10:06:18 AM »
Quote from: Steve_ Shaffer on August 13, 2014, 02:50:44 PM
I remember posting an earlier article on the deal but can't find it here so here is breaking news....

http://www.philly.com/philly/blogs/inq-phillydeals/Toll-Bros-Country-club-deal-is-dead.html

Glad to hear it. I haven't played Philmont, but actually work in the Toll-managed office building mentioned in the article. The building is less than two minutes from the club's entrance.
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Mark McKeever

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Re: Philmont cc
« Reply #36 on: August 14, 2014, 01:21:01 PM »
Does this mean they will open the south course again?

MM
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Best MGA showers - Bayonne

"Dude, he's a total d***"

Joe Bausch

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Re: Philmont cc
« Reply #37 on: August 14, 2014, 02:12:07 PM »
Quote from: Mark McKeever on August 14, 2014, 01:21:01 PM
Does this mean they will open the south course again?

MM

It was never closed.
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@jwbausch (for new photo albums)
The site for the Cobb's Creek project:  https://cobbscreek.org/
Nearly all Delaware Valley golf courses in photo albums: Bausch Collection

Mark McKeever

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Re: Philmont cc
« Reply #38 on: August 15, 2014, 08:31:52 AM »
Quote from: Joe Bausch on August 14, 2014, 02:12:07 PM
Quote from: Mark McKeever on August 14, 2014, 01:21:01 PM
Does this mean they will open the south course again?

MM

It was never closed.


Good!  I thought I read it was shut down at one point.
MM

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Best MGA showers - Bayonne

"Dude, he's a total d***"

Steve_ Shaffer

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Re: Philmont cc
« Reply #39 on: September 13, 2017, 08:23:10 PM »
Seems like Concert Golf,the new owners of Philmont,  has no problem with being accurate:


https://www.philmontcc.org/web/pages/about-us   
Starting out with just 9 holes Philmont has grown to 36 holes of golf, named the South Course and the North Course. Even though there may have be some controversial discussions on who the original course designers were, history shows that the designer for the South course was John Reid, with future revisions conducted by Hugh Wilson (1913), Willie Park Jr. (1923), and William F. Gordon. John Reid also designed the original layouts at Atlantic City, Wilmington Country Club and Lancaster Country Club. The North Course was designed by Willie Park Jr., and revisions were led by William F. Gordon. Willie Park Jr. designed the famous Olympia Fields Country Club in Chicago, IL, host of the 2003 US OPEN, along with Maidstone Club (Top 100 Course), and SunningdalexOld Course) (Golf Digest Top 100 World Rankings) in England.
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"Some of us worship in churches, some in synagogues, some on golf courses ... "  Adlai Stevenson
Hyman Roth to Michael Corleone: "We're bigger than US Steel."
Ben Hogan “The most important shot in golf is the next one”

Joe Bausch

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Re: Philmont cc
« Reply #40 on: September 13, 2017, 08:41:59 PM »
Hey, maybe my multiple meetings over the years with the Club have succeeded!
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@jwbausch (for new photo albums)
The site for the Cobb's Creek project:  https://cobbscreek.org/
Nearly all Delaware Valley golf courses in photo albums: Bausch Collection

MCirba

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Re: Philmont cc
« Reply #41 on: September 14, 2017, 11:42:54 AM »
Joe,


Persistence is omnipotent. 


Nice job!
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"Persistence and determination alone are omnipotent" - Calvin Coolidge

https://cobbscreek.org/

mike_malone

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Re: Philmont cc
« Reply #42 on: September 15, 2017, 10:30:07 PM »
 It will be hosting a GAP Winter Series. Sign up.
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AKA Mayday

Nate Oxman

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Re: Philmont cc
« Reply #43 on: September 17, 2017, 11:36:56 AM »
Isn't the South open to the public now? I couldn't find any info. on rates anywhere.
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Steve_ Shaffer

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Philmont cc
« Reply #44 on: September 17, 2017, 07:41:38 PM »
Nate,


At one time, a few years ago,  South was open for limited public play. I doubt that's the case now under the new ownership. 
Logged
"Some of us worship in churches, some in synagogues, some on golf courses ... "  Adlai Stevenson
Hyman Roth to Michael Corleone: "We're bigger than US Steel."
Ben Hogan “The most important shot in golf is the next one”
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