[Wayne Wiggins, Jr.]

Wayne,
I hear you about your example at #13 at Olympic but if you are already on the green or have the option to be on the green then your point doesn't make any sense.  I can see no scenario where one would prefer to be off the green than on the green IF both balls are in the best spot relative to hole location (as in my August #16 example).  I thought we were talking "architecture" here, and not putting or chipping abilities?

Not sure... maybe i wasn't clear. Or maybe i don't understand your reply (sorry), as I was posting in reference to the architecture of the hole. Let me try this again...

The demand on this tee shot is such that laying up in front of the bunker is a more prudent play (i.e. anything heading left, even if it hits the green, has a very good probability of going further left and into the hazard; anything short/short-left has a good probability of leaving a very challenging bunker shot). It's just a very tough shot. In relation to your Augusta example, the pin placement on Olympic's #13 has little bearing on this strategy, IMHO, although if it were in the back third of the green it would certainly make for an easier recovery opportunity.

[Carl Johnson]

I've seen plenty of huge greens where I (a better chipper than lag putter) would rather be off the green rather than facing some kind of treacherous 80 foot putt. . . .

So, Matthew, you're telling us that you are reluctant to chip when you're on the green? 

[Matt MacIver]

Two concepts come to mind when thinking about "better to be long than on", and they both involve back pins and trees that slop away like a Redan.  The other is a long par 4 at Charlotte CC where the green has a back lower shelf, separated from the rest of the green by a ~3-4ft hill.  So if you're in the middle of the green you'll never stop your ball on the back since it catches the hill and rolls off.  Conversely if you're long you can putt or chip back to the pin and the hill serves as a backstop.  Cool feature. 

[Mark_Fine]

Ben,
Please clarify - when you say "hitting" a green, do mean landing on it with your approach or tee shot or do mean "ending up on it" with that shot?  There are many times especially on links courses where you definitely don't want to "hit" the green with your shot but you sure want to end up on it after it rolls out.  Ask Tom Watson about that at 18 at Turnburry!  He sure wanted to end up on the green. He just wishes his approach shot hit short of the green instead of on it and not bounced over the back. 

[JESII]

Or, are you asking about the players intention? Are you asking about holes on which the player, while planning their approach to the green, decides they'd rather miss the green in a particular area as opposed to taking on some of the risks inherent in trying to get on the green?

[Tom ORourke]

An NLE Rees Jones course in Philadelphia (Eagle Lodge, now redone as the Ace Club) had an hole (# eight) with a green where the left side was a nice easy target. The right side was narrow and sloped hard from left to right. If the pin was there and you were on the left half it was very difficult to putt the ball up a slope of almost 2 feet and keep it on the green with the slope usually taking the ball all the way to the right fringe. You were better off missing the green right than being on the left side of the green. Nice uphill chip, and you would rather have your third shot from there than your fourth. Hitting the green on that side was possible, but not easy, but you would score better over the course of a year being a little long and right rather than going for it and pulling it to the center of the green. You could just put 5 on the card from there. Good hole once you realized where not to hit it.

[Jerry Kluger]

I was a marshal at the then 10th hole at the 1997 US Open at Congressional and my Sunday assignment was to sit on the wall that created the pond on the right side of the green and tell players who went into the water where they crossed the hazard line.  On the left side of the green were 2 bunkers and some very deep rough.  The hole plays uphill and was about 480 yards and most players struggled with it.  Ernie Els won the event and when he came to the 10th he hit his shot about 5-10 yards short of the green and chipped in for birdie.  I have never had a chance to ask him about that play but I believe he did it intentionally and it was brilliant. 

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