Are you entitled to a flat lie in the fairway?

[Bill Brightly]

My 4 handicap buddy hits a good drive two yards short of a fairway bunker on our #1 handicap hole. He has a slightly downhill lie. I'm three yards short of him with a flat lie. Getting a shot, I hit the green and he comes up short. He thinks that is poor course set up and should be altered.


Discuss.


(Hint: we belong to a US private club. )

[Greg Chambers]

How is it poor course set up?

[mike_malone]

The only thing a fairway gives you is a good chance to make solid contact off a good lie.

[Mike Nuzzo]

Tell him to stay on the range.

[Carl Johnson]

No. It's golf . . . not bowling.

[Peter Gannon]

It takes a few strolls around to get the "lay of the land".


Next time, he will hit  a 3 wood, or try another angle....

[Sean_A]

How else can bunkers have maximum effectiveness if they are not gathering?  I say he was lucky not to be in the sand.

Ciao

[Thomas Dai]

It might be called the 'FAIRway' but that's no entitlement to a flat lie.

atb

[Duncan Cheslett]

Many courses in England feature ridge and furrow fairways, a relic of the agricultural practices of up to a thousand years ago.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ridge_and_furrow


Whether you get a flat, an uphill, or a downhill lie is a complete lottery.


I guess they could be bulldozed flat. But why would you do that?

[jeffwarne]

Many courses in England feature ridge and furrow fairways, a relic of the agricultural practices of up to a thousand years ago.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ridge_and_furrow


Whether you get a flat, an uphill, or a downhill lie is a complete lottery.


+1
and they discourage cart use


I guess they could be bulldozed flat. But why would you do that?

[Mike Sweeney]

He has a slightly downhill lie. I'm three yards short of him with a flat lie. Getting a shot, I hit the green and he comes up short. He thinks that is poor course set up and should be altered.

Hire a contractor, flatten that three yard area, and send him the bill. Then ask him how many more flat lies he wants

[MCirba]

No.

[Tom_Doak]

Ask him to show you where it says that in the Rules.


He may be flummoxed to find that there is nothing in there about "the fairway" at all.

[Jim_Kennedy]

We ask players to plant one of these if they find a flat spot on the course.

[Jeff_Brauer]

Both Trevino and Watson wrote/said that you ought to try to find a level lie with your tee shot.  Neither of those thought it should be guaranteed.  Trevino once proposed architects grind out just big enough to hit level spots at a succession of distances from the tee, starting at about 220, 240, 260, etc.  I don't recall the exact figures, but he thought it might encourage more thought about not hitting driver on every tee.


Of course, many golfers believe its their architectural right to hit driver because chicks dig the long ball, I guess.

[Anthony Gholz]

at our course, 1 block off Lake Huron, they're called lake bottom sand ridges.  Luckily we were logged and grazed, but not farmed so the humps and bumps come "naturally" with 100 years of mowing and chemicals and divots

[Rick Shefchik]

Ask him to show you where it says that in the Rules.


He may be flummoxed to find that there is nothing in there about "the fairway" at all.

Interesting point. Tom, do you think the same principle applies to tree limbs that overhang fairways?

[Steve Lang]

   In your dreams or perhaps at just TopGolf...

[Ken Fry]

No good discussion of architecture begins with a player's belief he's entitled to anything.


Tell your buddy to work on his course management.  That'll be much cheaper for everyone involved.


Ken

[Tom_Doak]

Ask him to show you where it says that in the Rules.


He may be flummoxed to find that there is nothing in there about "the fairway" at all.

Interesting point. Tom, do you think the same principle applies to tree limbs that overhang fairways?

Yes.  I don't think tree limbs should be too much in play, because they reduce strategy, and I often recommend that such trees be removed.  But I don't think it's "unfair" if you have to deal with one on occasion.


Of course, there's nothing in the early Rules about trees, because there weren't any trees!

[Wade Whitehead]

I'm still not sure I'm convinced players should be entitled to a level lie on the tee box.

WW

[Mark_Fine]

I am surprised this question was even asked     As I tell people here in the states who have never played a true links course - you have never really played "real" golf!