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Sean_A

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: "Can Sand Valley Make Wisconsin The Next Golfing Destination?"
« Reply #1 on: May 07, 2017, 05:34:29 AM »
What was the last golfing destination?  This sort of question really reminds me of the golf club and mobile phone release cycles.  Its an eventual deadend...its just a matter of when one chooses to get off the merry go round.  Why must everything golf be a news cycle?  Its a tired approach to journalism.

Ciao
New plays planned for 2024: Nothing

jeffwarne

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: "Can Sand Valley Make Wisconsin The Next Golfing Destination?"
« Reply #2 on: May 07, 2017, 07:01:36 AM »
Funny, I just had a well heeled friend ask me about the article last night(I hadn't seen it yet) and wanted to know when I was going.
I gave my usual answer-It looks great, but I think my next trips are still to the UK or Ireland.


I'm probably missing out(SV does look great), but it seems all the "latest" courses here are such a production-just seeing the line in the article where his "caddie convinced him to play the middle tees" kind've chilled me.
With the vast array of subtle, low key choices  in the UK and Ireland(or for that matter Maine), and the ones I tend to make, my trollies rarely convince me of anything...except it seems they often point themselves back to the first tee.


I have played quite a bit of Wisconsin and I will agree that there is great variety there-especially now-and I must say a Packers game is a one-of-a kind experience in the otherwise overcorporate and unattendable NFL.
« Last Edit: May 07, 2017, 07:29:15 AM by jeffwarne »
"Let's slow the damned greens down a bit, not take the character out of them." Tom Doak
"Take their focus off the grass and put it squarely on interesting golf." Don Mahaffey

Ian Mackenzie

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: "Can Sand Valley Make Wisconsin The Next Golfing Destination?"
« Reply #3 on: May 07, 2017, 08:24:00 AM »
I appreciate well-articulated cynicism.... ;D


But, it may be, in fact, true that SV could make "Cheese land" a golfing destination.


Worked for Brandon, it appears to be the case for Cabot, so the Keiser formula has merit.
However, in the case of Sand Valley, it has much greater proximity to major metro golf markets from which to draw visitors: Minneapolis, Chicago, St. Louis, Detroit and of course MIlwaukee.


Instead of driving 5-10 hours to northern Michigan (depending on location), would it be more interesting to go to Wisconsin and play sand valley, Erin hills and Lawsonia?


Granted, there are not nearly as many courses to choose from compared to No. Michigan, but, for public access courses, I would take those 3 in WI over most of the "same sauce" resort tracks in MI. (SOrry, Tom...:-)

RJ_Daley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: "Can Sand Valley Make Wisconsin The Next Golfing Destination?"
« Reply #4 on: May 07, 2017, 02:12:31 PM »
In my view it is not a question of if Wisconsin will be a golf destination due to Sand Valley.  We already are a destination to many avid golfers and high end golf seekers with Whistling Straits, Blackwolf Run, Erin Hills, and those who can get on some of our great private clubs like Milwaukee CC, Blue Mounds, and several others.  Yes, a Wisconsin destination avid golfer would probably add Lawsonia to the rota if touring our little 'dairyland destination'. 

After playing SV last fall on the preview soft opening, I have no doubt the course will fulfill all the expectations and thrill the avid destination golfer.  And, given the development team, the DMK course on-track to open and other future courses will likely be just fine, as I really think it would be an act of GCA malpractice to actually screw up this incredible land.  Yes, everyone that is a golf design fanatic will have some alternative idea of how this hole or that corridor might have been better designed or routed.  That is what keeps us GCAer contributors going.

What this is really about in my mind is the depth of the destination golfer market and the resources that one spends for such.  There are getting to be so many destination offerings, I just don't know if there are enough golfer destination rounds to spread through the inventory of such destination golf developments to sustain in the long run.  I do worry that the incredible investment and high quality design effort along with the heart and soul of the construction development team would come to a situation that is less than the developer vision due to it falling  economic viability prey to the next 10 greatest destination things that will likely be built and 'marketed as destinations'.  Yes, probably in the next few years, a great number of 'destination' avid golfers will get there to SV.  But, will they return or notch their belt and move on? 

For me, it is a day trip destination, that I'd rather pay up for once in a blue moon, and surpasses Whistling and other Wisconsin destination courses in the real deal great sandy barrens, pure golf ground and design.  That is certainly a matter of personal preferences and fulfilling of my golf design sensibilities.  But, if folks like me are allowed to continue to play there, as a day trip, I just can't see also ponying up for expensive lodging, etc.  I'd go to play a round on one of which ever courses are up and running.  I am not sure how folks in the big metro areas of Minnie, Milwaukee, Chicago will view that.  Once they have multiple courses available to play over 2-3 day getaways, we'll see how that works out as 'destination' value. 

Destination is just a vague and variable concept.  I personally feel I need more to make something a high expense, golf destination.  I personally need hours of a golf day that are also spent at the destination to see and do other things.  So in that regard, I define destination perhaps more like Jeff Warne may think of it above, and view the local culture and nearby offerings as essential to cause me to spend up on the destination concept. 

The exception to this for me is still the Sand Hills, both Dismal River, Prairie Club, and SHGC, .  There, it is on-sight golf focused, captive within the compound.  Perhaps the difference is simply a longer journey to get there that makes it seem more of a destination in my mind.  I also think the cost may actually be less to go to the sand hills offerings and play multiple rounds than it would be to play the same amount at SV on the same captive to the compound basis. 

The other comparable that certainly must be high on the 'destination sustainability' factor is the season and number of rounds.  The sand hill compounds/clubs due to the availability of scarce worker-labor in that remote region in order to operate to the high standards that are part of the destination promise of high quality, seem roughly the same length of season.  And, we see how that does... and does not work out.  SHGC definitely has the edge there due to strong national membership and first to establish the authentic unique first great thing.

The depth of the market and value offered to destination golfers VS the number of destination choices will ultimately decide this, IMHO. 
No actual golf rounds were ruined or delayed, nor golf rules broken, in the taking of any photographs that may be displayed by the above forum user.

Tom_Doak

  • Karma: +3/-1
Re: "Can Sand Valley Make Wisconsin The Next Golfing Destination?"
« Reply #5 on: May 07, 2017, 03:03:28 PM »
RJ:


The odd thing about your caveat about what makes a "destination" is that I think many golfers agree, in theory.  Yet in practice, not many of the people who go to Bandon or Cabot or Kohler [or for that matter, Pinehurst or Streamsong or the Sand Hills] do much else there besides eat, drink and play golf.


If you agree, then it's clear that what matters most is not the town or any of the surroundings, but the quality of the golf itself.  Of course, people's view of the quality of the golf is tied up with the surroundings, and because of that, we have to wait and see if they think as highly of Sand Valley as they do of the others named above ... it is high competition and not necessarily a slam dunk when you don't have an ocean view.


I agree with you and Jeff that Scotland, Ireland, and other true "destinations" offer much more than golf, but that's not the business model for most of these new American golf resorts, for one very good reason:  real estate is too expensive in really nice places  :)

Steve Lang

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: "Can Sand Valley Make Wisconsin The Next Golfing Destination?"
« Reply #6 on: May 07, 2017, 08:51:29 PM »
 8)  Yes it can... we'll go over and stay overnight somewhere at or around SV... in the summer.. 


Last we visited Wisconsin was for college hockey in February, and took in the Harley Davidson Museum, that was a good couple of hours...
Inverness (Toledo, OH) cathedral clock inscription: "God measures men by what they are. Not what they in wealth possess.  That vibrant message chimes afar.
The voice of Inverness"

Frank M

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: "Can Sand Valley Make Wisconsin The Next Golfing Destination?" New
« Reply #7 on: May 07, 2017, 09:49:36 PM »
I'm not sure if it will make Wisconsin the "next golfing destination," but IMO it has the most potential for the one and done golfer of all the existing golf destinations I can think of. It should benefit from the larger urban centers located not too far from it as well as those looking for the destination type golf without travelling too far.

I've realized I'm becoming tired of traveling eons to reach a "golf destination" that is really more of an "empty my wallet" destination and I wonder how many of these types of places the world, or at last NA for SV, can take. Don't get me wrong these places have some great golf, but there's great golf everywhere and 5 days at most of these destinations can cover nearly my entire season's worth of golf closer to home. 
« Last Edit: July 06, 2024, 12:53:20 AM by Frank M »

Peter Pallotta

Re: "Can Sand Valley Make Wisconsin The Next Golfing Destination?"
« Reply #8 on: May 07, 2017, 10:15:40 PM »
Is there is one type of golfer (with certain golfing tastes) who will travel *really* far for golf, and another type of golfer (with other golfing tastes) who will travel *moderately* far for golf, ie from the 2 or 3 closest urban centres to SV? In other words, if you set aside the built-in and ready made fans like RJ and Steve and the rest of us, I wonder if the average day tripper - as opposed to the Bandon or Sand Hills type of traveller - will want to play SV as much as he does Blackwolf Run or the Kohler courses.
« Last Edit: May 07, 2017, 10:19:20 PM by Peter Pallotta »

David_Tepper

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: "Can Sand Valley Make Wisconsin The Next Golfing Destination?"
« Reply #9 on: May 08, 2017, 02:36:47 AM »
I wonder how many golfers from the mid-west, who have been traveling to Bandon every year or every other year, will now substitute Sand Valley for some (or even all) of those trips.

I know guys on the West Coast, who used to travel to GB&I regularly, are now traveling to Bandon at least once a year instead of making the long journey to GB&I every year or every other other year. Now those guys are traveling to GB&I once every 3 to 5 years, if they go at all.     

Steve Salmen

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: "Can Sand Valley Make Wisconsin The Next Golfing Destination?"
« Reply #10 on: May 08, 2017, 07:49:40 AM »
I stayed Friday night and played 36 Saturday at SV. The room, golf, and amenities were reasonably priced. Beers were $2.


The golf course seemed completely full. There were a lot of guys from the Chicago area. The first round took 4 hrs. Afternoon round was 4:20. It was cool and very windy. Bump and run shots were useful, if not necessary.


As long as the pricing does not increase a lot, I'll make an annual trip to SV. That said, I still prefer Lawsonia😊

Jim Nugent

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: "Can Sand Valley Make Wisconsin The Next Golfing Destination?"
« Reply #11 on: May 08, 2017, 08:39:01 AM »
I still prefer Lawsonia😊

You like the course at Lawsonia more?