Panther Valley, N.J.--The course? The Club?

[mike_malone]

 A friend asked me this question. I figured I'd go to the experts for an answer.

[Jeff Spittel]

I used to do a lot of home and homes there back in the day. A mix of some very cool doglegs with dramatic elevation changes and fairly generic, long, straight, flat RTJ par fours in the valley.

The course is usually in great shape and is pretty manly from the back markers. The club is pretty family oriented because Panther Valley is a gated real estate community.

[Matt_Ward]

Mike:

Panther Valley is a good Jersey club. The layout is done well on a tough site with plenty of rolls and turns. I really like the first hole -- a plunging downhill dog-leg left par-5 hole with H20 in front of the green. Unfortunately, the bulk of the course generally has formulaic bunkering and green designs -- it's ironic because the land is a good bit better than the collective nature of the holes you play.

The layout is fairly rudimentary and if pressed to give a placement of the club when compared to all other Garden State courses -- I would not include it among the top 25 -- likely given some thought it might crack the top 50 but the competition is indeed keen and I'd need to really think that through.

[Bill Brightly]

Matt,

I like Panther Valley a lot but I have to strongly disagree about the first hole. It is a dogleg left , dead downhill with a BLIND tee shot and OB on the right. If this was later in the round, I could buy it. But an OB is no way to start your round, especially if you are new to the course and could not see where you need to hit it and how far.

[AndrewB]

In the handful of tournaments I've played there, I've heard the exact same complaint (about the first hole) from most of the players in the field I've spoken to.  Play was usually backed up a bit too off that first tee.

I personally like the hole and think it's a fun start.  First tee nerves are certainly intensified there.

[Jeff Spittel]

I think the first hole is the best hole on the course. If you are concerned about OB/lack of a warmup, etc., you have the option to simply hit an iron/hybrid off the tee and play the hole as a three shotter.

If you are feeling limber and have played the course before, take driver over the trees to the left and you've got an iron in your hands to go at the green. Nothing wrong with that.

[Michael Dugger]

Sex Panther....it's got real bits of panther in it.

[Matt_Ward]

Bill:

Where does it say in golf design that OB is not permitted on the 1st hole? Maybe you seem to forget the 1st hole at the BO a few years back at Royal Liverpool.

Putting some fear into the bomb'n gouge type players is perfectly acceptable. If you shape the shot accordingly the good player will have a justified reward.

OB is clearly a harsh penalty but the idea that its inclusion can only come at certain parts of the round doesn't fly for me although I completely understand your position.

Candidly, I see the first hole as one of the most unique elements of Panther Valley. Like I said before -- the totality of the holes is a good bit less than the nature of the site itself. When I see such a situation I have to wonder if the architect simply pulled back instead of adding a good bit more there.

[Bill Brightly]

Matt,

I did not say OB was against the rules of golf architecture...I simply said that I do not like this as a starting hole.

It is cool hole with a lot of wild features. It has a great risk/reward option on the tee and on the second shot if you hit a good drive. But throw in OB, a downhill, blind tee shot and there is just too much going on for my taste.

But it would be a great hole later in the round for both match and metal play.

[Adam Sherer]

I am somewhat surprised that anyone has ever heard of PVGCC much less that people on this forum are praising any design merit of the course. 

[Ian_L]

Matt,

I like Panther Valley a lot but I have to strongly disagree about the first hole. It is a dogleg left , dead downhill with a BLIND tee shot and OB on the right. If this was later in the round, I could buy it. But an OB is no way to start your round, especially if you are new to the course and could not see where you need to hit it and how far.

This reminds me of the first hole at Diablo C.C. in Danville, CA.  The first hole is a blind tee shot with houses right and OB parking lot left.

Adam, wouldn't you agree that any course has some design merit, be it one hole, bunker, hazard, green, tree, slope, etc.?

[Matt_Ward]

Ian:

Your disagreement is noted but not agreed to by me.

The hole is a par-5 -- the player DECIDES whether to be super aggressive on the hole or take a more cautious tone. In sum, the player decides whether to put the gun to their head with any misplay.

Those who take the risk and pull it off can reach the target and possibly jump start the round with an eagle.

Those playing their the first time would need to really think about their execution. Last time I checked -- the element of thinking is a core strength with any hole of note.

[Anton]

I played Panther Valley for the first time this past weekend.  My uncle is a member and we have been planning a round there for a few years.  It is a very demanding layout for the first time visitor.  Here are a few pics since I did not see any others posted on here.



Par 4 3rd - dogleg right to a green angled back to the left. 



9th green (par 4) with 10th hole in the background (par 3 with water all right)



18th green with clubhouse - taken from 15th tee looking across



11th hole par 5 - dogleg left off the tee to an uphill approach.  The hole bottlenecks and the green is heavily contoured with 3 distinct sections. 



short to mid length par 3 13th.  Played about 175 this particular day

[Tom_Doak]

All the holes look the same  /s