I miss doglegs

[Duncan Cheslett]

Here is a selection of doglegs from courses local to me. I have placed them in ascending order of quality.


Avro Golf Club.





This hole comes into the "Mickey Mouse" category. Tee to green is less than 200 yards as the crow flies over the maintenance shed, so a local rule is in force prohibiting golfers from attempting to reach the green off the tee.





Alderley Edge Golf Club





Marginally better, but not much. Again, local rules prohibit attempts to cut the corner to protect golfers on the green in the elbow.




Prestbury Golf Club





A good example of a hole laid out 100 years ago (by H.S Colt) which modern technology has compromised dreadfully. Tee to green is 260 yards over trees - too far for all but the very biggest hitters, but close enough to encourage attempts to draw a drive close to the green. The green in the elbow is directly in the firing line from pulled hooks or left-handed slices. I doubt this hole would be countenanced today. For most though, it is a routine long iron or fairway wood followed by a pitch. It is consequently the least satisfying hole on a great course.




Helsby Golf Club





Another sharp turn, but at least this time the direct shot is over adjacent farmland into an awkward corner of the property which otherwise would be difficult to make use of. Few safety issues here.


Disley Golf Club





A much more satisfying dogleg hole where the player is invited to bite off as much as he can chew over the practice ground (OOB) This hole is downhill and most definitely driveable. It is consequently great fun. The most memorable hole on an average course.


Delamere Forest Golf Club



Pure quirk. The tee shot is blind up over the crest of a hill and the shelf green lies round the corner on the other side of scrub and marsh.  At 260 yards I guess the direct route is possible but well beyond my imagination.


Reddish Vale Golf Club





The very best kind of dogleg hole, dictated by the natural features on the ground. It is similar to the hole at Disley but with far more risk. The direct line is 260 yards carry to a tiny target surrounded on three sides by water, Few attempt it other than in a skins game. Most peoples' favourite hole on a wonderful course.

[Sean_A]

In theory near 90 degree leggers are okay, in practice they are rarely done well and usually end up favouring the long ball hitter to a great degree.  I much prefer more subtly turning holes because of the choices off the tee.
Ciao

Yank - can you explain your thinking on this? My experience, as per the above post, is that the longer hitter's length advantage is mitigated on the sharp dogleg in a way and to a degree unmatched on any other hole. On every Par 5 he bombs it past me and has a chance to reach the green in two; on every Par 4 he bombs it past me and has a much shorter approach shot; and on every Par 3 he is using 2 or 3 irons 'less' than I am.  Only on the sharp dogleg are we both hitting it a maximum of 200 yards - and though he might use a 4 or 5 iron while I'm using a 2 iron, I can live with that, just as I can live with me using an 8 iron and him using a PW for the approach. It is as close, distance wise, as I get to the longer player all round.
Peter

Pietro

In my experience

1. Trees aren't close to the tee so bombers can go over the top...rabbits must go straight.

2. Hazard at the turn can be had by bombers...rabbits must go straight.

3. The turn of the leg is too far to reach for rabbits, bombers can hit an iron. 

4. If out of position after the drive, bombers often can go over trees, rabbits must play a low shot or hack out. 

5. Turn of the leg is too short so players with modest length must lay-up, but bombers can go over the top.

There are simply too many things to go wrong on designing this type of hole. Also, it often takes vigilant tree control to leave barely adeqaute space to play.

I think there are some great situations to create the nearly 90 degree turn, but mostly that involves the land turning with the legger so the rabbit can at least hit away in the hope that his ball turns the corner a bit.  The bomber too has the choice of whipping one around the turn, going over the top or laying up. But, I think in general, I would prefer if this type of hole were done with very few trees around, more open country than your typical parkland design. Generally though, 45ish-55ish degrees is about the limit for me when it comes to good leggers.

Still, I dislike holes where the drive distance is prescribed in a range...say from 220 to 240 leaves the open approach.  I can take it maybe once on a course, but even then I am likely to think it is one of the weakest holes on the course simply because there is zero imagination to the design or it is used to solve a bad property issue.  Woking's 9th is a hole I detest because I know bombers ignore the trees and everybody else is either laying up or fighting the leg...worst of all a leg which turns left when the terrain leans right....one of the crappiest driving holes I know.  Its a shame because the steeply uphill approach is very good.

Ciao

[Willie_Dow]

My old age preference is TEE BOX !


With high trees up front on the corner a 90 degree dogleg is a great hole.


Length of drive is unimportant if the tee box fits the player.


Thanks to Inverness !

[Carl Rogers]

Riverfront has a several sharp doglegs on par 4's that require strategy of the tee:
- no. 5 dogleg left, but this best angle is drive dead straight toward a distant fw bunker to give the beast angle up the green, big yawning green side bunker guarding the short cut
- no. 7 drive & short appraoch, more subtle dog left that requires a long shot tee shot to clear the fw bunker or for the rest of us  a severely segemented green requiring varied tee shot placement for optinal angle depending on flag location
- no. 9, dogleg right, defined by a cross bunker.  technolgy has hurt this hole as the big hitters blow it over the bunker unless a strong wind from the north
- no. 15, from the back tee only a cape hole right requiring a 195 yd min carry over wetland (southeast direction), sometimes against the wind
- no. 16, right hand dogleg, fw bunker guards the corner.  there is such a diiference in length between the white tot he blue tees that big hitters have to take on this bunker.


 3 of the par 5's have an interesting variety of doglegs as well, the most pronounced is the fishook left 14th.  the 3rd and the 8th move more gently right but at different locations up the fw.

[Neil White]

The problem I have seen with dog-leg holes is similar to the point Tom makes - the use of land within the inside of the leg.


Courses that have holes running parallel to each other - leading to a situation where internal OB is required to try and salvage any modicum of perceived safety.





This one has been discussed on here before - can't find the thread though.