Length of Round

[Rick Lane]

Yes Tim you nailed it.   There may be an "in between" too?   I'm in New England, and we still see 5 hours on courses that aren't EH or US Open venues, the "non Black" parts of Bethpage, Trumps course in the Bronx, etc.  I have played Bethpage Black in 6 hours and will not do that again!   I think its that people watch too much golf on TV and emulate the pros routines, from club selection, to the Jason Day eyes closed thing, etc....I see it a lot.  Not being ready to hit when its their turn, not lining up the putt while the other guy is putting, and (in carts) all carts going to one ball at a time.    The usual pace of play mistakes people make, 10 seconds here and there repeated 50 times by each of four guys is half an hour.    Its so easy to fix.  I'm at a private club and yes, if you get to 4 hours you are now slow and will hear it from others.   4 guys walking is 3:20 to 3:45 with caddies carrying doubles.   The most interesting is when we get new members who are used to 5 hours, and have to re-educate them on 3:30! 

[Thomas Dai]

In a 4-ball stroke-play medal....

Individual stokeplay competitions played in 4-balls! Not 'having a go', but yikes!
Each to their own I guess.


Atb

[Ian Mackenzie]

Generally, in the 5th hour of a round I'll ask myself:  "Where would I rather be in the next hour?"  My response, courtesy of W. C. Handy is "I'd rather be here than any place I know." 

Either you guys play too much golf or are far more important than I've been lead to believe. 

Also, I've played Erin Hills twice at around 4 hours.  If R.J. Daley and I can scrape it around in that time, it ain't the architecture.

Cheers,

Bogey

IF  that is truly how you feel, then you are blessed. However, I do not see it that way at all. Plus, it's just so damn conditional....


1. If you have nothing else on your plate that day, then by all means smell the flowers, Bogey. Don't mind me; I'll be playing through while you are tip-toeing through the tulips...;-)
2. I'd rather spend time with my mates, my wife, my kids, my dog than watch a group of transients take photos of their 4-some...;-)
3. Would rather play my round in under 4 hours, eat lunch and then go play again and be done for dinner...;-)


I do not begrudge anyone (J-Kav...;-) who wants to play at their leisure. As long as I know where and when it's happening, I can make alternative arrangements to not get in your way.

[Eric LeFante]

I've played Bethpage Black over 20 times and it takes at least 5 hours to play that course. Tee times are now 9 minutes apart (they were 6 minutes 15 years ago). There is some waiting for the group ahead but that really isn't the main cause of the long round. It is the difficulty of the golf course. It's 6,700 yards from the WHITE tees and 6,200 yards from the FORWARD tees. I'm not sure if most realize the white tees are roughly 500 yards longer than the white tees on an average course. I think the bunkers slow play down as well. They are so big and so deep that it takes quite a while to successfully get your ball out of them and then try to rake them.

[Jon Wiggett]

No excuse for anything longer than 3.5 hours

Impossible for a lot of courses and most 3 ball medals, the County are doing M tee start and +5 hrs for afternoons now and the boys say they are often only getting 20 minutes now.


You are governed by what is in front, its just like traffic if it is busy.


Our pace of play is 4hr 32. 136 minutes for each nine. If we multiple start we don't want the first group doing 2 hours for the front nine. With just one start it is fine.


Our second course is 5400 yards, not much walking to next tees and two players if its quiet can do 2hrs 30. 3 ball medals go straight to 4 hours....the golfer takes more care and care equals time.

Adrian,


I understand where you are coming from but such arguments as saying 'impossible' are really just excuses for not doing anything. Clearly as you say yourself it is possible to do 18 holes in 3.5 hours and this is also the case for a 4 ball playing individual medal. The thing is it needs a concerted effort by all involved which includes the golfers as well. As a facility owner I fully understand why you do not do anything about it as it would be unpopular. It really needs the tours both professional and top amateur to set an example and actually walk the walk when it comes to speed of play.


Jon

Read what I said not what you think I said.

Adrian,


I think I read your post perfectly but as you feel I did not why not explain rather than the tetchy response 

[Sean_A]

The more difficult or hard to play quickly a course is the more I want to play it as a 2ball.  4ball on a tough course can be a harsh day out with ball searching on nearly every hole.  I figure if a course requires more than 3.5 hours for a 2ball then its likely far too tough and or walk for my liking. I have slowly migrated almost completely away from 4ball.  Though I must say I recently played a 4ball at Pinehurst #2 and finished in under 4 hours without rushing or worrying about time.  I do notice that golf in the US is far less time conscience.  Many golfers do loaf about the place like their lives will last forever.  Its a marked contrast to golf in the UK where there is usually some concern about pace of play.   


Ciao   

[Ira Fishman]

I agree with one the posts that Ballybunion is an exception for me in terms of a longish round being well worth it.  However, we were not being held up by a group in front NOR holding up a group behind.  It probably was 4.5 hours, but the course is so great that it did not seem to take that long (no really dreary long green to tee hikes).  Having said that, I still prefer playing excellent courses at a good pace.  Perhaps my wife and I were lucky, but our longest round last month at Bandon was 4:20 on Pacific Dunes with the other three being 3:40 or less.  The pace of play made the whole experience that much more carefree and enjoyable.


Ira

[Tim Martin]

Generally, in the 5th hour of a round I'll ask myself:  "Where would I rather be in the next hour?"  My response, courtesy of W. C. Handy is "I'd rather be here than any place I know." 

Either you guys play too much golf or are far more important than I've been lead to believe. 

I couldn't possibly agree more with Bogey on this one.

Longer is not better...I’m Irish and sticking to it.

Jim-Remember it’s not the size of the battalion but the fury of the attack.

[Adrian_Stiff]

No excuse for anything longer than 3.5 hours

Impossible for a lot of courses and most 3 ball medals, the County are doing M tee start and +5 hrs for afternoons now and the boys say they are often only getting 20 minutes now.


You are governed by what is in front, its just like traffic if it is busy.


Our pace of play is 4hr 32. 136 minutes for each nine. If we multiple start we don't want the first group doing 2 hours for the front nine. With just one start it is fine.


Our second course is 5400 yards, not much walking to next tees and two players if its quiet can do 2hrs 30. 3 ball medals go straight to 4 hours....the golfer takes more care and care equals time.

Adrian,


I understand where you are coming from but such arguments as saying 'impossible' are really just excuses for not doing anything. Clearly as you say yourself it is possible to do 18 holes in 3.5 hours and this is also the case for a 4 ball playing individual medal. The thing is it needs a concerted effort by all involved which includes the golfers as well. As a facility owner I fully understand why you do not do anything about it as it would be unpopular. It really needs the tours both professional and top amateur to set an example and actually walk the walk when it comes to speed of play.


Jon

Read what I said not what you think I said.

Adrian,


I think I read your post perfectly but as you feel I did not why not explain rather than the tetchy response 

If YOU read my post correctly you would see I challenged your statement where you said NO EXCUSE FOR ANYTHING LONGER THAN 3.5 HOURS.


I said it was impossible ON A LOT OF  COURSES and AS SOON AS YOU PLAY 3 BALL MEDAL.

You then decided that I was not prepared to do anything about it and gave the reasons. You created something in your mind that you decided were my thoughts. You do that a lot.

For the record I am anti slow play, but you can't play fast if those in front are slow. If the first group out takes 4 hours no one following plays in 3.5 hours


A short course (less than 6000 yards) with minimal walking, a 2 ball, playing matchplay, conceeding putts, wide corridors are all factors that make play quicker. The world is working more to 4 ball play, scoring, narrower fairways.


I can walk a 5000 yard course in 50 minutes, a 6000 yarder in an hour and a 7000 yarder in 70 minutes....the longer course and the walking does not add lots, it also matters zero in the problem if when you get to the next tee you have to wait.


Marking the ball once on the green I think will save 30 minutes in group, all the faffing around alining the ball to hole could be stopped with a rule change and that 30 minutes is important.

Being ready to play when its your turn, id ban the bushnells and all indicators, notebooks it adds time.

You might get back to 3.5 hour medals then like when we played golf in the 1.62 days.

[jeffwarne]

Bigger courses with more ers...(as in better, bigger, faster, deeper, rougher, prettier,tougher)
tend to attract bigger egos..


a combustible combination when it comes to pace of play.


I have and will always enjoy a smaller scale for a variey of reasons, and age will only encourage me to seek out and enjoy more of this. It is disappointing though that showing such courses to young, athletic,avid(i.e. the future) golfers will not provide them the same shotmaking challenges, enjoyment or scale that these courses once provided.Or worse yet they will suffer knee jerk reactions of deeper rough and narrower fairways.

[Tim Gallant]

In a 4-ball stroke-play medal....

Individual stokeplay competitions played in 4-balls! Not 'having a go', but yikes!
Each to their own I guess.


Atb

Hehe, Thomas, you are right - that was an error. It should have said 4-ball better ball stableford. On reflection, our stroke play events go off as two-balls, and normally 3:30 is the average.

[Jon Wiggett]

No excuse for anything longer than 3.5 hours

Impossible for a lot of courses and most 3 ball medals, the County are doing M tee start and +5 hrs for afternoons now and the boys say they are often only getting 20 minutes now.


You are governed by what is in front, its just like traffic if it is busy.


Our pace of play is 4hr 32. 136 minutes for each nine. If we multiple start we don't want the first group doing 2 hours for the front nine. With just one start it is fine.


Our second course is 5400 yards, not much walking to next tees and two players if its quiet can do 2hrs 30. 3 ball medals go straight to 4 hours....the golfer takes more care and care equals time.

Adrian,


I understand where you are coming from but such arguments as saying 'impossible' are really just excuses for not doing anything. Clearly as you say yourself it is possible to do 18 holes in 3.5 hours and this is also the case for a 4 ball playing individual medal. The thing is it needs a concerted effort by all involved which includes the golfers as well. As a facility owner I fully understand why you do not do anything about it as it would be unpopular. It really needs the tours both professional and top amateur to set an example and actually walk the walk when it comes to speed of play.


Jon

Read what I said not what you think I said.

Adrian,


I think I read your post perfectly but as you feel I did not why not explain rather than the tetchy response 

If YOU read my post correctly you would see I challenged your statement where you said NO EXCUSE FOR ANYTHING LONGER THAN 3.5 HOURS.


I said it was impossible ON A LOT OF  COURSES and AS SOON AS YOU PLAY 3 BALL MEDAL.

You then decided that I was not prepared to do anything about it and gave the reasons. You created something in your mind that you decided were my thoughts. You do that a lot.

For the record I am anti slow play, but you can't play fast if those in front are slow. If the first group out takes 4 hours no one following plays in 3.5 hours


A short course (less than 6000 yards) with minimal walking, a 2 ball, playing matchplay, conceeding putts, wide corridors are all factors that make play quicker. The world is working more to 4 ball play, scoring, narrower fairways.


I can walk a 5000 yard course in 50 minutes, a 6000 yarder in an hour and a 7000 yarder in 70 minutes....the longer course and the walking does not add lots, it also matters zero in the problem if when you get to the next tee you have to wait.


Marking the ball once on the green I think will save 30 minutes in group, all the faffing around alining the ball to hole could be stopped with a rule change and that 30 minutes is important.

Being ready to play when its your turn, id ban the bushnells and all indicators, notebooks it adds time.

You might get back to 3.5 hour medals then like when we played golf in the 1.62 days.

It appears I read your post perfectly then Adrian. Just because someone questions what you write there is no need to take umbrage. I agree with all the points you put in bold at the end.

[A.G._Crockett]

I think we can all agree on a couple of points:

1. 3.5 hours for a foursome is a lovely pace of play.
2. The single biggest factor in pace of play is the individual players and how they manage what they are doing.

That said, there are a lot of things that "intervene" in pace of play, and the golf course is clearly one of them.  If four golfers can play, for instance, at Tobacco Road in under 4 hours, then they should be given a free pass for a month.

Being unfamiliar with the golf course slows things down.  Lots of places to lose a golf ball slows things down.  Stroke play under the Rules and putting out slows things down.  Blind shots slows things down.  Huge greens and tough bunkers slows things down.  And so on.

At a course like Erin Hills, where almost all of that is in play, why would anybody expect to finish quickly?

[Joe Bausch]

Generally, in the 5th hour of a round I'll ask myself:  "Where would I rather be in the next hour?"  My response, courtesy of W. C. Handy is "I'd rather be here than any place I know." 

Either you guys play too much golf or are far more important than I've been lead to believe. 

Also, I've played Erin Hills twice at around 4 hours.  If R.J. Daley and I can scrape it around in that time, it ain't the architecture.

Cheers,

Bogey

My afternoon round in May 2011 (a 3-ball, with 2 caddies) at Erin Hills was 4h8m.