FYI - The Mid Ocean Club, as it was in the 60s

[Peter Pallotta]

Periodically we get a full episode of the great old Shell's Wonderful World of Golf series posted on youtube.
This episode is a mid 1960s match between Peter Alliss and Tony Lema from Bermuda's Mid Ocean Club, designed by CBM and Seth Raynor.
I thought some might enjoy seeing what the course looked like and played liked back then   


www.youtube.com/watch?v=00GtobroEbs


Best
Peter

[Sean_A]

We do get some great close-ups of fairways and greens which show how long the grass is and how slow the course played.


Cheers & Ciao

[Tom_Doak]

I've been consulting at Mid Ocean off and on for almost twenty years now, and the condition of the course varies more than any I've worked on.  The main reason for that is that, to this day, they don't have irrigation on the fairways.  In fact, there is no potable water system in Bermuda at all ... everyone subsists on the water they collect from their rooftops, or by buying water delivered by tank truck at a VERY high rate.  It's a very sustainable place.


When we started there, the greens were common Bermudagrass [as you might expect!], and they were quite slow by today's standards.  It was easy to see why "Bermuda" greens were vilified back in the day.  We converted them to one of the new hybrid Bermudas over three years, six greens at a time [because that's all the water they had], and now they are excellent.

[Eric LeFante]

Cool to see the classic redan green at number 5.


Most of us grumble about how technology with the driver and the golf ball have ruined the game, but the way technology has changed maintenance practices is amazing. It's eye opening to see how the fairways and greens were cut back then at Mid Ocean.

[Peter Pallotta]

I knew when I posted that, compared to some of the other episodes -- e.g. at Pine Valley, with Littler and Nelson -- this one didn't do as good a job of highlighting the architecture; but as Eric notes, you do get some glimpses of some very cool holes.


In terms of the maintenance and grass, at one point, and if I heard the gentleman/club secretary (?) correctly, it sounded as if the putting was particularly difficult because "our poa annua is dying off but the rye grass hasn't fully grown in yet".


No mention of Bermuda back then, but again I may have heard wrong.


Best
P

[Mark Bourgeois]

Thanks for posting, Peter.

Was the vegetation down the left on 5 originally there and, if it is today, any thought to getting rid of it? Breaks the line of instinct off the tee and, more significantly, looks like it messes up the visual design intent of the Cape.

EDIT: the vegetation does not appear to be present in the 1940 aerial of the course.

[MCirba]

Peter,

The gratuitous cleavage was particularly obvious and rather appealing, even in those 1960s fashions.

Thanks for the early Christmas present.

Mid-Ocean was/is a gem, as well.

[Craig Disher]

I visited Mid Ocean Club last month and wish I had seen this film before. I hadn't played the course in nearly 20 years and was overwhelmed by how much more open it now feels. In many spots the trees that are visible in the film are now gone. Also gone is the high grass around the greens. One of the big surprises was the restoration of both lobes of the Biarritz 13th. The film shows it as I remembered it from the early 1990s - a plateau green with a pair of bunkers lining a fairway approach. Work is ongoing. A fairway bunker on the 18th just below the clubhouse was being enlarged and deepened.

Hurricane Matthew had blown through about 2 weeks earlier and the high winds brought in a lot of salt water. The course next door had large patches of scorched fairways and greens. For some reason MO was spared. Overall, the conditions were excellent. In the early part of the film, note the old multi-story clubhouse.

[Dave McCollum]

No wonder these courses survived.  How many folks were needed to maintain them back then?  3-5 max with equipment (a tractor, gang mowers, a couple of  reel mowers for the greens)?  Depending on how cheap the labor, maybe many more with hand tools.  Getting rid of the brush down the left side of 5 would require a crew of guys with saws, machetes, and burn piles.  When we worked in the Caribbean twenty plus years later on non golf projects, we learned how to operate with more men and fewer machines.  Took a couple of screw-ups to learn the necessary labor management and, as I recall now, never without some new lessons and drama (on other islands).  Thanks Peter for the pleasant diversion.           

[Tom_Doak]

No wonder these courses survived.  How many folks were needed to maintain them back then?  3-5 max with equipment (a tractor, gang mowers, a couple of  reel mowers for the greens)?  Depending on how cheap the labor, maybe many more with hand tools.  Getting rid of the brush down the left side of 5 would require a crew of guys with saws, machetes, and burn piles.  When we worked in the Caribbean twenty plus years later on non golf projects, we learned how to operate with more men and fewer machines.  Took a couple of screw-ups to learn the necessary labor management and, as I recall now, never without some new lessons and drama (on other islands).  Thanks Peter for the pleasant diversion.         

Dave:


Bermuda isn't in the Caribbean; it's out on its own in the Atlantic, and due to the cost of living, labor costs there are the highest of anywhere I've ever worked!


The "brush" on the left side of #5 is a forest of mangroves, which are a protected species.  They are allowed to prune them back a bit, every once in a while, but that's all.

[jeffwarne]

Cool to see the classic redan green at number 5.


Most of us grumble about how technology with the driver and the golf ball have ruined the game, but the way technology has changed maintenance practices is amazing. It's eye opening to see how the fairways and greens were cut back then at Mid Ocean.

I'll go the other way.
Looks absolutely fantatsic to me=almost like an outdoor game....


I see fast putts downhill (and the commentators commenting on it), and slow putts uphill.
Skill, judgement and a pure roll required on the grainy slopy surfaces.
The fairways actually have grass giving the average player an actual chance, and requiring judgement by a skilled player to judge a potential flyer and the bounce/run on the greens due to less spin being applied.
Actually having to read the lie rather than the tight lies of today which destroy the average guy and are highly spin predictable for a skilled player.


I'd go so far as to say today's super tight lies are the single least attractive feature to newer/poor players enjoyiment of  the game.
When I'm giving playing lessons I pray they find the first cut-or kick the ball into it.

[Dave McCollum]

No wonder these courses survived.  How many folks were needed to maintain them back then?  3-5 max with equipment (a tractor, gang mowers, a couple of  reel mowers for the greens)?  Depending on how cheap the labor, maybe many more with hand tools.  Getting rid of the brush down the left side of 5 would require a crew of guys with saws, machetes, and burn piles.  When we worked in the Caribbean twenty plus years later on non golf projects, we learned how to operate with more men and fewer machines.  Took a couple of screw-ups to learn the necessary labor management and, as I recall now, never without some new lessons and drama (on other islands).  Thanks Peter for the pleasant diversion.         

Dave:


Bermuda isn't in the Caribbean; it's out on its own in the Atlantic, and due to the cost of living, labor costs there are the highest of anywhere I've ever worked!


The "brush" on the left side of #5 is a forest of mangroves, which are a protected species.  They are allowed to prune them back a bit, every once in a while, but that's all.

Thanks Tom, never been there.  I was just blown away by the conditioning back in the day.  Not being judgmental about it.  You know I feel it's the same game whether played on pristine fields or goat ranch.  If anything, if golfers would accept comparable conditioning today, the game would be just as fun and a whole lot more affordable.  Understand the mangroves and why needed to prevent erosion and hold the coast together.  My speculation (on another post) was based on working in other former British Islands like Jamaica (and many other ex-colonial outposts) where the economic difference between the land-owning classes and those doing the actual work is vast.  Good to know that the gap has been closed somewhat here.  The galleries just looked so white, the workers so black, I guess I triggered some of my experiential biases without meaning to get political about it.                 

[Peter Pallotta]

The conditioning, the course, the relative speed and ease with which they played the game -- everything seemed so much less precious back then than today. Even the way Lema and Alliss dressed and swung the club: as if they were just going to or coming back from lunch and a few drinks with their wives instead of strapping on the armour and getting ready for war, what with launching missles and such. My kind of pastime back then, and one of the reasons I use persimmon -- to remind me that it's a game and not a sport, and that I want to engage with the land/course, not overpower it.

[Sean_A]

Cool to see the classic redan green at number 5.


Most of us grumble about how technology with the driver and the golf ball have ruined the game, but the way technology has changed maintenance practices is amazing. It's eye opening to see how the fairways and greens were cut back then at Mid Ocean.

I'll go the other way.
Looks absolutely fantatsic to me=almost like an outdoor game....


I see fast putts downhill (and the commentators commenting on it), and slow putts uphill.
Skill, judgement and a pure roll required on the grainy slopy surfaces.
The fairways actually have grass giving the average player an actual chance, and requiring judgement by a skilled player to judge a potential flyer and the bounce/run on the greens due to less spin being applied.
Actually having to read the lie rather than the tight lies of today which destroy the average guy and are highly spin predictable for a skilled player.


I'd go so far as to say today's super tight lies are the single least attractive feature to newer/poor players enjoyiment of  the game.
When I'm giving playing lessons I pray they find the first cut-or kick the ball into it.

Jeff


I dare say you are in an extreme minority.  I watched more than a few putts jump wildly off-line...not good.  I think there is middle ground between Augusta and 1960s bermuda grass     In fact I recall you lambasting Pebble's greens one Open and they were sublime compared to that video! 


Fairways...not so much bothered by that so long as balls aren't sitting below the surface. 


I actually don't think the course looks all that wonderful in the video...rather plain!


Ciao

[Joe Hancock]

Jeff,


You may be the extreme minority, but you're not alone. I like how you think, and would love to enjoy those conditions with you sometime.

[jeffwarne]

Jeff,


You may be the extreme minority, but you're not alone. I like how you think, and would love to enjoy those conditions with you sometime.

absolutely Joe-Askernish(not played) comes to mind, Goat Hill, Achill Island, Mulranny, Otway,Cabbage Patch in Augusta(now a complete mess) probably the closest in my experience


I still haven't forgiven Sean for moving his ball on the tenth at Pennard(where I realized what the rules of the day were-preferred lies -on a links....)


Sean, my beef with Pebble taht year in the US Open is the sheer effort they went to put the course in that condition-if it were presented like that more often due to less maintenance/less water I'd be all for it.


To be fair those greens in Bermuda in that video did look a bit coarse-but I'm 100% confident I could have great fun on those.
Sean's right there is some middle ground for sure-slower with commensurate slope to create challenge can also putt very smooth

[Sean_A]

Jeff


The interesting thing is the course looks to be fairly firm, but the grass is so long that the firmness is negated to a large degree. 


I plan to make it back to Pennard when the bunkers are finished.  If I find my ball suberterranean I will move it again.  I understand that at many low key clubs GUR cannot be marked out everywhere so its best to take matters in one hands rather than hack up the course.


Ciao

[Thomas Dai]

Conditioning - for comparison purposes take a look at this film of the Masters/ANGC 1960 - https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=vAN0A9plPIY
Cracking film. Arnold wins.
Atb
PS - anyone notice Peter Alliss putting cross-handed in the Mid-Ocean film?

[Joe Hancock]

The interesting thing is the course looks to be fairly firm, but the grass is so long that the firmness is negated to a large degree. 

Sean,


I almost always think the opposite is true; grass is cut so short and maintained in a way that the grass plant lacks the structure needed for a truly firm surface. It's not just the soil underneath causing the bounces.

[jeffwarne]

The interesting thing is the course looks to be fairly firm, but the grass is so long that the firmness is negated to a large degree. 

Sean,


I almost always think the opposite is true; grass is cut so short and maintained in a way that the grass plant lacks the structure needed for a truly firm surface. It's not just the soil underneath causing the bounces.

and usually needs to be kept moister to keep it alive in hotter months on northern grass
Fast due to turf length,and the soft that often comes with it it-especially in the summer not worth the tradeoff

[Sean_A]

The interesting thing is the course looks to be fairly firm, but the grass is so long that the firmness is negated to a large degree. 

Sean,


I almost always think the opposite is true; grass is cut so short and maintained in a way that the grass plant lacks the structure needed for a truly firm surface. It's not just the soil underneath causing the bounces.

I don't encounter many courses where fairways/greens are cut that short...indeed, its quite rare for me and I have never seen it in GB&I.  Most of the time the grass height is fine, its just that either the weather doesn't cooperate or its over-watered.  I do draw the line a large cracks in the fairway and furry greens that don't roll-out and are bumpier than a go-cart ride.  For instance, Cleeve Cloud would be a better course if the greens were a bit quicker.  The firmness and trueness is there, just need cutting.  However, for the fee they charge I am more than happy with the conditions...though I would happily pay a bit more for quicker greens.  I am not looking for super fast conditions, just keen and true relative to the season and weather.  I understand that apple conditions only come along once in a blue moon unless maintenance costs are sky high.  I am very okay with 9ish stimp, keen greens, dry fairways, and green fronts running about the same speed as greens.  To me this is the perfect height to retain/create contour, cause havoc with angles and not be OTT with putting taking up too much time or undue influence on the score, but be affordable to maintain on a four season basis.  I guess I don't run in those 13 stimp and fairways down to the wood circles.  I hear about it on these pages, but never see it.


Ciao

[David_Tepper]

There are links to a number of other SWWoG videos from the 1960's here:

http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,63973.0.html

[Bill_McBride]

Conditioning - for comparison purposes take a look at this film of the Masters/ANGC 1960 - https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=vAN0A9plPIY
Cracking film. Arnold wins.
Atb
PS - anyone notice Peter Alliss putting cross-handed in the Mid-Ocean film?

Yes!  Was it just on the short ones?

[BCowan]

Cool to see the classic redan green at number 5.


Most of us grumble about how technology with the driver and the golf ball have ruined the game, but the way technology has changed maintenance practices is amazing. It's eye opening to see how the fairways and greens were cut back then at Mid Ocean.

I'll go the other way.
Looks absolutely fantatsic to me=almost like an outdoor game....


I see fast putts downhill (and the commentators commenting on it), and slow putts uphill.
Skill, judgement and a pure roll required on the grainy slopy surfaces.
The fairways actually have grass giving the average player an actual chance, and requiring judgement by a skilled player to judge a potential flyer and the bounce/run on the greens due to less spin being applied.
Actually having to read the lie rather than the tight lies of today which destroy the average guy and are highly spin predictable for a skilled player.


I'd go so far as to say today's super tight lies are the single least attractive feature to newer/poor players enjoyiment of  the game.
When I'm giving playing lessons I pray they find the first cut-or kick the ball into it.

Jeff,

   How about a Shells match in 15 years at Thee Goat (18 holes) with hickories Woods vs Michelson?