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Jason Thurman

  • Karma: +1/-0
Golf would grow itself if it just had more clubs like this
« on: August 20, 2016, 05:45:02 PM »
I played three rounds at a pretty cool club the other day:
 
Pulling up in the parking lot, you could see right away that it was packed with young people and beginners enjoying the game. There also wasn’t a golf cart in sight! The clubhouse was spacious and inviting with multiple food and beverage areas, all of which were packed with members watching sports and having a beer.
 
I played in a group with some beginners and some avid players, and we all had a blast. The design accommodated the beginners, but it really shined when it came to giving experienced players a chance to compete equitably even with varying skill levels. The course was tricky enough to stop the low handicappers from overpowering it without really stopping them from hitting some longer clubs. It was open enough for the higher handicap avid golfer to find a strategy that allows him to avoid trouble and make positive swings toward his target. It doesn’t hurt that the turf was uniformly firm and fast and allowed for running shots.
 
It strikes me that clubs like this aren’t our game’s past, despite what their small footprint, emphasis on strategy over punishment, and ability to accommodate all types of players would make you think. They’re our game’s future.  And I think we can all agree that it’s time to stop fearing the future, and start embracing it. Who agrees?
"There will always be haters. That’s just the way it is. Hating dudes marry hating women and have hating ass kids." - Evan Turner

Some of y'all have never been called out in bold green font and it really shows.

Jim_Kennedy

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Golf would grow itself if it just had more clubs like this
« Reply #1 on: August 20, 2016, 05:51:50 PM »
...and then you woke up.  ;)
"I never beat a well man in my life" - Harry Vardon

Jason Thurman

  • Karma: +1/-0
Re: Golf would grow itself if it just had more clubs like this
« Reply #2 on: August 20, 2016, 05:58:40 PM »
I had so much fun, I did something I'd never done before. I asked my wife to play golf with me. And with a little coaxing, she agreed! Without making any jokes about how many white people there were going to be! To be clear, I mean that she agreed to go without making any white people jokes - she started making tons of them when we got there. But it was cool of her not to make them before we got there.


She did make fun of me when I pulled out my old blade irons from the basement and decided to give them a spin. I've never been a vintage equipment player before, but I could definitely see myself playing nothing more than a half set of Tommy Armour blades from the early aughts without drivers or woods on this fairly short course. And hitting them again proved to be a joy - the feel and control when hitting the ball well is just amazing even if the feel and control when hitting them poorly is... not.


She played like a beginner, but pretty well for a first-timer. And she had fun and wants to go back again. As for me, I might start keeping a half set of blades at the office for late evening rounds. It's good to reconnect with my inner Bobby Jones. Unfortunately, I play more like his brother Hobby Jones.
"There will always be haters. That’s just the way it is. Hating dudes marry hating women and have hating ass kids." - Evan Turner

Some of y'all have never been called out in bold green font and it really shows.

Peter Pallotta

Re: Golf would grow itself if it just had more clubs like this
« Reply #3 on: August 20, 2016, 07:00:25 PM »
You're changing, Jason -- *growing* I would say, over these past few years. You seem to have kept the best parts of the old you -- the sardonic humour, the generalized air of superiority -- and added a greater *warmth* and an almost democratically-spirited compassion for the foibles and failings of others. You are, in short, the perfect golf club member or guest, and so I'm not surprised that you were now drawn to such a course as you so well describe. And with that comes the old blades and persimmons, and the *sounds* of golf. Yes, with people like you at the helm, golf is indeed in good hands. Mr. Bobby Jones would be proud.

John Kavanaugh

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Golf would grow itself if it just had more clubs like this
« Reply #4 on: August 20, 2016, 07:14:25 PM »
When you measure fun by how many balls you don't lose you end up with a bag of old balls.

Mark Pritchett

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Golf would grow itself if it just had more clubs like this
« Reply #5 on: August 20, 2016, 07:17:49 PM »
Topgolf?

Peter Pallotta

Re: Golf would grow itself if it just had more clubs like this
« Reply #6 on: August 20, 2016, 07:31:39 PM »
Topgolf?

Say it ain't so, Joe Mark...

Heroes with feet of clay...they've been the ruin of me

Richard Hetzel

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Golf would grow itself if it just had more clubs like this
« Reply #7 on: August 20, 2016, 07:36:50 PM »
Well, I just drove by the new Topgolf facility in West Chester and it looked packed. Of course, it was raining outside. I would rather play a real course, but I will heck it out as it seems to be the rage here right now.
Best Played So Far This Season:
Crystal Downs CC (MI), The Bridge (NY), Canterbury GC (OH), Lakota Links (CO), Montauk Downs (NY), Sedge Valley (WI)

Jason Thurman

  • Karma: +1/-0
Re: Golf would grow itself if it just had more clubs like this
« Reply #8 on: August 20, 2016, 10:36:02 PM »

I haven't played 18 holes in a month, but I've been to Top Golf twice in the last week.


Nae wind and rain, nae Top Golf.



The electronic scorecard works as well as Old Tom would have envisioned.



A closer look at the brown target.



Wifey posing on a soft draw 3 hybrid that skirted the bunker before taking the slope to the brown target.




Honestly, the positioning of the targets really does accommodate beginners while challenging experienced players. The tee is basically surrounded by an arc of targets starting at 25 yards away, so even the worst hitters will eventually find points by virtue of being surrounded by targets at short range. If you carry it 75+ yards, then virtually any ball hit bounding down a 60 yard swath of fairway from the tee will find some points if it just rolls out far enough on the firm playing surfaces, which it generally will. Meanwhile, flying the ball to the proper target is a pretty fun challenge, and made more exciting by the potential for good bounces and the ability to create lower risk and higher upside shots due to the flexible scoring systems. Check out the contours of the green target!



It's not golf, but it's close and certainly no less fun. It also conspicuously solves a lot of the problems with golf - lower environmental and physical footprint, fast pace of play, capable of being completed in a reasonable amount of time (I've stuck around over 2 hours both times I've been, but each game only takes about 20-40 minutes), beginner friendly, low cost of entry (a lifetime membership is only $5!), inviting and accessible atmosphere. Rightfully so, it appears to make a whole bunch of money.

"There will always be haters. That’s just the way it is. Hating dudes marry hating women and have hating ass kids." - Evan Turner

Some of y'all have never been called out in bold green font and it really shows.

Tom Bacsanyi

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Golf would grow itself if it just had more clubs like this
« Reply #9 on: August 22, 2016, 12:14:32 AM »
It isn't a real thread on GCA unless there are a few old balls in the mix...

When you measure fun by how many balls you don't lose you end up with a bag of old balls.
Don't play too much golf. Two rounds a day are plenty.

--Harry Vardon

BHoover

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Golf would grow itself if it just had more clubs like this
« Reply #10 on: August 22, 2016, 09:17:45 AM »
I'd love to peg it at a place like this.

Tony_Muldoon

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Golf would grow itself if it just had more clubs like this
« Reply #11 on: August 22, 2016, 09:26:53 AM »
I went to the first one in Watford within 9 months of it opening and the second one, Chigwell, was a Par 5 away from my office.  Have been many times and know lots of kids who’ve enjoyed a night out there.  Even though we’ve moved our office 10 miles, our young receptionist has chosen to organise our next informal outing there.
 
 
Having said that I don’t know anyone who’s progressed to real grass. Best I think you can say is, it can’t hurt.
Let's make GCA grate again!

PCCraig

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Golf would grow itself if it just had more clubs like this
« Reply #12 on: August 22, 2016, 09:48:49 AM »
I've been to the one in Chicago and recently went to the one in Kansas City. The one in Kansas City had a two-hour wait just to get onto a hitting bay on a Saturday afternoon. The whole set up and game is pretty fun, and it's not hard to see why it's popular. It's certainly more fun than your typical driving range.


They must be doing well. I think for four of us to spend a couple hours in a hitting bay it cost over $300?
H.P.S.

Terry Lavin

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Golf would grow itself if it just had more clubs like this
« Reply #13 on: August 22, 2016, 10:44:11 AM »
It's not my cup of tea, but these places do a great business.  The day I visited (for a local cable tv taping), the place was throbbing with activity.  Lots of young people, lots of beer flowing, lots of women, etc.  I don't know or care whether this grows the game, but it sure is a fun social situation for a big chunk of the demographic.
Nobody ever went broke underestimating the intelligence of the American people.  H.L. Mencken

Jim_Kennedy

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Golf would grow itself if it just had more clubs like this
« Reply #14 on: August 22, 2016, 12:06:21 PM »
...and we worry about golf carts.  ::) 



"I never beat a well man in my life" - Harry Vardon

Tom Allen

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Golf would grow itself if it just had more clubs like this
« Reply #15 on: August 22, 2016, 12:18:58 PM »
I too went and had a blast, and my buddies and I are all ready to go back.

I can confirm that the West Chester, Ohio location is hopping.   2.5 hour wait last Saturday night at 11:00.
(reportedly).

Jason Thurman

  • Karma: +1/-0
Re: Golf would grow itself if it just had more clubs like this
« Reply #16 on: August 22, 2016, 12:34:00 PM »
Tony, I'd love to see one with a natural turf hitting area. I suspect that's beyond the scope of their business model though. The artificial turf on the target field itself isn't something I see a good workaround for - in fact, having played in a pretty steady rain on Saturday, the artificial turf is a big advantage for maintaining the fast and firm conditions that allowed my wife to roll the ball into a few of the targets. She had literally hit about 10 balls in her life prior to Saturday, all with a men's sand wedge some 7 years or so ago. She still had no problem rolling balls out to 160+ yards with the 3 hybrid that she used exclusively while we were there. She's a competitive runner so probably more athletic than your average beginning golfer, but there's no doubt she was also helped by the bouncy "turf."


On the other hand, I do think a target area with some funneling slopes that a savvy player could utilize would be even more fun. You can get some lucky bounces as is, but a couple redan-style kickplates or "fairway bunkers" with speed slots behind them that feed the ball toward certain targets would be a nice touch.


Pat, you mention it's more fun than a typical driving range. I'll go a step further. I found Top Golf a lot more fun than playing golf at the local public courses in my area. I admittedly live in an awful town for golf, and particularly for public golf. Uniformly, the options available in the area are somewhere between poor and mediocre from a design standpoint. Weekday public golf isn't an option locally unless you can play during work hours or join a league, as every course within 15 minutes of the beltway is closed for league play beginning at 4p every weekday. Even when you can get on, incredibly slow pace of play is the norm. You're also almost certainly playing on soggy, overwatered turf. I made the choice to drop my local private club membership about a year ago, and I'd rather do just about anything than give up five hours of my life for the misery of a round on a public course around here. And I'm not exaggerating, for once. I haven't played 18 holes in a month, and I've logged 6 public course rounds locally all year. I'll be shocked if I don't go to Top Golf twice as often as I play local public golf the rest of the year. One is fun, and one is genuinely worse than the dental procedure I had done before I went to Top Golf last Thursday. At least they numb you for the dental procedure, your socks stay dry, and it's over in an hour.


Tom, we had to wait 30 minutes just to get in at 10:30 in the morning. West Chester is hopping indeed. We may need a Cincinnati GCA Top Golf outing.
"There will always be haters. That’s just the way it is. Hating dudes marry hating women and have hating ass kids." - Evan Turner

Some of y'all have never been called out in bold green font and it really shows.

Peter Pallotta

Re: Golf would grow itself if it just had more clubs like this
« Reply #17 on: August 22, 2016, 02:38:05 PM »
Can a "Top 10" list be far behind?

Complaints about a Fazio renovation?

Matty G ranking the newest facility the best in North America, just after the foundations are poured?

Access requests?

Comparisons to The Old Course?

A book, or several?

A renaissance?

Criss Titschinger

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Golf would grow itself if it just had more clubs like this
« Reply #18 on: August 22, 2016, 02:55:28 PM »
...I'll go a step further. I found Top Golf a lot more fun than playing golf at the local public courses in my area. I admittedly live in an awful town for golf, and particularly for public golf. Uniformly, the options available in the area are somewhere between poor and mediocre from a design standpoint. Weekday public golf isn't an option locally unless you can play during work hours or join a league, as every course within 15 minutes of the beltway is closed for league play beginning at 4p every weekday. Even when you can get on, incredibly slow pace of play is the norm. You're also almost certainly playing on soggy, overwatered turf. I made the choice to drop my local private club membership about a year ago, and I'd rather do just about anything than give up five hours of my life for the misery of a round on a public course around here. And I'm not exaggerating, for once. I haven't played 18 holes in a month, and I've logged 6 public course rounds locally all year. I'll be shocked if I don't go to Top Golf twice as often as I play local public golf the rest of the year. One is fun, and one is genuinely worse than the dental procedure I had done before I went to Top Golf last Thursday. At least they numb you for the dental procedure, your socks stay dry, and it's over in an hour.


Tom, we had to wait 30 minutes just to get in at 10:30 in the morning. West Chester is hopping indeed. We may need a Cincinnati GCA Top Golf outing.

May need to have an outing?! Um, this is mandatory.

I think my revised Cincy public list has Top Golf West Chester in the top 5. Maybe top 3. Jason's assessment of Cincy area public courses is spot on. Maybe this will ultimately help other courses in the area. For example, allowing one to play nearby Beckett Ridge in under 5 hours; a feat I have not accomplished.

Jay Mickle

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Golf would grow itself if it just had more clubs like this
« Reply #19 on: August 22, 2016, 02:59:42 PM »
Once again this is a course for an aerial game. No high point scores with a ground game even though conditions are firm and fast.   
@MickleStix on Instagram
MickleStix.com

Richard Hetzel

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Golf would grow itself if it just had more clubs like this
« Reply #20 on: August 22, 2016, 03:10:38 PM »
...I'll go a step further. I found Top Golf a lot more fun than playing golf at the local public courses in my area. I admittedly live in an awful town for golf, and particularly for public golf. Uniformly, the options available in the area are somewhere between poor and mediocre from a design standpoint. Weekday public golf isn't an option locally unless you can play during work hours or join a league, as every course within 15 minutes of the beltway is closed for league play beginning at 4p every weekday. Even when you can get on, incredibly slow pace of play is the norm. You're also almost certainly playing on soggy, overwatered turf. I made the choice to drop my local private club membership about a year ago, and I'd rather do just about anything than give up five hours of my life for the misery of a round on a public course around here. And I'm not exaggerating, for once. I haven't played 18 holes in a month, and I've logged 6 public course rounds locally all year. I'll be shocked if I don't go to Top Golf twice as often as I play local public golf the rest of the year. One is fun, and one is genuinely worse than the dental procedure I had done before I went to Top Golf last Thursday. At least they numb you for the dental procedure, your socks stay dry, and it's over in an hour.


Tom, we had to wait 30 minutes just to get in at 10:30 in the morning. West Chester is hopping indeed. We may need a Cincinnati GCA Top Golf outing.

May need to have an outing?! Um, this is mandatory.

I think my revised Cincy public list has Top Golf West Chester in the top 5. Maybe top 3. Jason's assessment of Cincy area public courses is spot on. Maybe this will ultimately help other courses in the area. For example, allowing one to play nearby Beckett Ridge in under 5 hours; a feat I have not accomplished.


I am in! And, yes Jason is correct the public offerings are weak (albeit very cheap pricewise) here in Cincinnati. I find my self driving the short drive to Indy to play much better offerings (and visit Sun King Brewery) a lot.
Best Played So Far This Season:
Crystal Downs CC (MI), The Bridge (NY), Canterbury GC (OH), Lakota Links (CO), Montauk Downs (NY), Sedge Valley (WI)

Adam Warren

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Golf would grow itself if it just had more clubs like this
« Reply #21 on: August 24, 2016, 09:36:34 AM »
I was in Virginia Beach recently and went by the one there, but didn't have time to stop in.  It did look pretty full on a weekday afternoon.  Next time I am in Cincy, hopefully I can stop in and give it a shot and see what all the fuss is about.  I've never heard any of my golfing friends that have been to one have anything but great things to say about it.

Louisville could certainly fill up one of these places.  In much the same way as Cincy, the public golf leaves a lot to be desired here.  I could see them finding a spot somewhere along the Gene Snyder and filling that place up regularly.  There is even an NLE golf course right along the Snyder that would be perfect for it...though I'm not sure the homeowners would agree.

Mike Wagner

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Golf would grow itself if it just had more clubs like this
« Reply #22 on: August 24, 2016, 09:47:14 AM »
Once again this is a course for an aerial game. No high point scores with a ground game even though conditions are firm and fast.


Absolutely not.  I play 1 bouncers to the middle back green.  Makes it way more fun.

RJ_Daley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Golf would grow itself if it just had more clubs like this
« Reply #23 on: August 24, 2016, 10:16:17 AM »
Regarding the artificial surfaces, my preference to make the action of striking the ball more fun and realistic would be to figure out or use the artificial teeing grounds similar to "Syntennetee" or whatever is currently available where there is more of a tuft of material with crum rubber or sand swept into the strands to give the ball strike more natural feel.  Just a nit to pick.  But, I would love to visit one of these facilities, particularly with a novice that wouldn't otherwise have the confidence to try a real course... like my wife! ;) ;D
No actual golf rounds were ruined or delayed, nor golf rules broken, in the taking of any photographs that may be displayed by the above forum user.

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