Bunker Options for UK Courses

[Eric Smith]

Michael,

They were taken in August 2012. Loved the golf at Machrihanish Dunes.

[David_Tepper]

In case anyone did not see these videos of the Ecobunker system:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BtaNac_yyXI

Ecobunker at Southerdown:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DiYWT6UWJZU

[Michael Graham]

Michael,
Note I've never played Trump (nor will I ever)
but I have played Aberdovey multiple times both before and after bunker enhancements, as well as Machrahanish Dunes.

Jeff,

I've only played Trump once a couple of months after its grand opening when it was anything other than a links course. I don't know how it plays four years on. Safe to say I'm not in a rush to go back.

The bunkering you referred to sticks out like a sore thumb. Case in point, the approach to the 18th.

[Michael Graham]

Michael,

They were taken in August 2012. Loved the golf at Machrihanish Dunes.

Eric,

Thank you. I'm looking forward to going back in April. It's such a lovely spot to play golf.

[Thomas Dai]

A couple of comments on eco-bunkering.


Some earth and sand etc should still get between the blocks of eco-material so grass and weeds etc ought to still grow on the revetted faces. I wonder how the blocks of eco-material will react over time to grass/weed removal techniques like the use of spraying or a burner gun that some courses use to remove the such grass/weeds?


Water and dampness will also perculate between the eco-blocks so I also wonder how winter freeze-thaw will effect them over time.


I'm not anti eco-bunker however, more curious, and will be be interested to see how things develop.


The photo posted by Michael of bunkering on the 18th at Balmedie International, oops, Trump Aberdeen, does suggest bunkering that's way OTT. Some nice Łash to be made there I imagine in a few years times for re-revetting and refurbishment work!

Atb

[jeffwarne]

Michael,
Note I've never played Trump (nor will I ever)
but I have played Aberdovey multiple times both before and after bunker enhancements, as well as Machrahanish Dunes.

Jeff,

I've only played Trump once a couple of months after its grand opening when it was anything other than a links course. I don't know how it plays four years on. Safe to say I'm not in a rush to go back.

The bunkering you referred to sticks out like a sore thumb. Case in point, the approach to the 18th.

takes a ton of talent to turn an incredible natural understandably protected site into that classic Myrtle beach look
Only question is can you get a "Caddie Girl" with similar enhancements?

[Jim_Kennedy]

Mike Young, this your invention?   


Love this:


https://www.golfcourseindustry.com/article/gci0215-redneck-bunkers-chariot-run

[Joshua Pettit]

Here's an eclectic variety:

[James Brown]

By comparison to Bandon, how hard are the bunker at TOC to maintain?

[Tom_Doak]

Joshua:


Thanks for the pictures.


However, in that era there was a lot less traffic from stupid golfers, and the expectations were a lot different than they are today.

[Tom_Doak]

By comparison to Bandon, how hard are the bunker at TOC to maintain?

James:


I don't know how to answer that, they are just different.  St. Andrews spends much more on bunker reconstruction on The Old Course every year than any of the Bandon courses do ... but they probably spend much less time on maintaining bunkers day to day during the season.  In Bandon, they do a lot of redistribution of sand in the bigger bunkers after windy nights.  They also have irrigation to dump water in the bunkers to try and minimize sand movement, but it doesn't solve the problem, only helps to lessen the burden a bit.


The key is that both places are quite profitable, so they can afford to spend whatever it takes to keep the bunkers in good condition.  Most clubs just don't have the manpower [$] to do so.

[Jon Wiggett]

Tom,

depends on the setting and climate. I would suggest a mix of revetted where windblow is a problem or a near vertical face is needed. Sleepers look good in the right setting as do the natural grass edges. Like Ian I think Castle Stuart is a good example of how to get a good set of bunkers across the entire course. Bad examples for me would be Carnoustie and Trump Aberdeen which both have good individual bunkers but simply repeat it over and over again.

One thing I would say is that most modern designs have forgotten the art of the grass bunker which is both very functional, looks good if done right and is cheap to maintain.

Jon

Jon

Not sure I'd use Castle Stuart as the exemplar of how to bunker a course. Admittedly I'm not it's biggest fan although I do like the course as hugely over rated as it is. For one thing the course closes down for several months which is a luxury other courses don't have, and for another the amount of staff at CS likely dwarfs the amount of staff at your average non-championship links.

I'd also suggest the bunkering is a mixed bag not only in style but effectiveness and functionality. I hope to whoever is up there that the use of sleepers never catches on and that they quietly get replaced in future years. The rise of revetting as a bunker style possibly/probably is due to the phasing out of sleepers back in the early 1900's. Sleepers are not only an eyesore but a danger as well. That's one thing the so called golden age of architecture got right as far as I'm concerned.

The other issue, IMO of course, is that the  bunkers are often too far on the periphery such that quite a few could readily be filled in as they are really there as eye candy, and if we are talking your average links, then we should be looking to cut down on the number of superfluous bunkers on a course.

Niall

Niall,

Castle Stuart is an excellent example of a course that has a good mix of bunker styles through the course which look appropriate or at least to my eye anyway. I am not sure what their closing down for the winter has to do with the bunker style or what you find so negative about it.

As for railway sleepers being used or not I do not believe their use has been phased out since 1900 as they are still used on modern courses. Can they be dangerous? If installed incorrectly then yes but if done properly then no they are not. Indeed, were we to follow the H&S line you seem to be pushing we would have to pull down the wall at NB which we played the other day as they pose a much higher risk level but I suspect neither of us would want to do that.

Jon

[Thomas Dai]

Joshua,


Well done for posting the yee olde bunker photos.


From expanding the photos, which admittedly does blur them a bit, some of the bunkers seem to be revetted, at least partially, eg 4th at Sandwich, Redan at NB.


The long thin, narrow snakey bunker at Sunningdale is interesting. Thin and narrow would give some interesting stances from which to play shots. Interesting lies too.


The sleeper wall on the left side of the first Rye photo is pretty high. A barrier anticipating more wind blown sand or that sleepers are extremely hard work to cut in half with a saw?


There are still sleepers sticking up vertically above ground at some UK courses, Aberdovey on the 4th and 16th holes being examples (plus those of the Dye family variety elsewhere).


Atb

[Jim_Kennedy]

Resource Efficiency Scotland is giving between 5 and 20k in grant money to clubs that choose Ecobunkers. 

http://www.sgeg.org.uk/documents/News/RES%20Imp%20Funding%20EcoBunker%20Notice%20June%202015.pdf


ed: Learned a new word from the advertisement - "Strimmer", which is Uk-ese for weed whacker. 

[Niall C]

Jon


The reference to Castle Stuart and closing down for the winter was about the course taking less of a battering from golfers than a normal links would over 12 months. I appreciate that during the average week when its open that CS might get normally more play than the average links however I doubt that makes up for the additional wear and tear on average links when CS is closed. As this thread was about the practicality and economics of bunkering as well as the style, I thought it relevant.


Re sleepers - I appreciate that a few US architects have used them, notably Pete Dye (or was it his son ?), but not on a traditional links that I'm aware of. Not only that but when they are used they tend to be for aesthetic purposes rather than with any real practical engineering intent.


Niall


ps. agree re walls at NB but then a lot of shots played over those walls are at an angle (ie, ball doesn't come straight back at you) or from a distance away.

[Jon Wiggett]

Niall,

you are correct that CS might have less wear and tear due to being shut during the winter months but question the conclusions you arrive at due to this. CS does have a mix of bunker styles that together are not seen else where but the individual styles are certainly not unique to CS and are found on many links courses throughout the UK. The bunkers are no more susceptible to problems of wear and tear or cost simply by mixing the styles as you seem to be implying.

On the point of sleepers there are many examples of courses using them both long established clubs and modern. Yes, it is an aesthetic decision but then again the same can be said of grass faced bunkers, flashed bunkers or any other type. I would suggest that long term sleepers are the cheaper option.

On another note I have always liked the vertical grassed faces of the bunkers at Woodhall Spa and have found it surprising that these have not been copied else where. For a new style though taking NB as inspiration what about stone wall face bunkers 

Jon

[Niall C]

Jon


Not wanting to flog a dead horse, but what I mean't about CS not being a great example was that firstly not all their bunkers are relevant and many are there purely as eye candy irrespective of their individual style, IMO of course, and that one of the styles namely sleeper faced bunkers, is not only dangerous to players but the practical engineering aspect of them can just as easily be done with revetting or grass face. That said, I can't think of any of the sleeper faced bunkers there being in play so they would be the ones I'd do away with anyway.


Now if you consider what I've said above in conjunction with Tom's original question about what an average links course with limited budget should ahve bunkers then you can see that the first thing you might consider would be to decide whether you really needed the ones that were there. The second thing you might do is look into the cost construction/maintenance of the different types (basically a value engineering approach), and perhaps the third thing you would do is check your PI cover if you were stupid enough to consider using sleepers 

Niall

[Jon Wiggett]

Niall,

even if the horse you are riding is called Shergar it is still a dead one your flogging  You are maybe correct aout the location of the sleeper faces at CS I do not recall where they are placed but that certainly does not have an baring on the styles validity.

I do not agree with you about the safety issue though. If constructed correctly then they are no more dangerous then other styles and far less dangerous than marker posts, trees, sign or indeed any other object that a ball can ricochet off. I wonder how many serious injuries have happened due to sleeper faces?

As to the cost of construction and maintenance I am pretty sure that sleeper faces are going to be cheaper to both construct and maintain than riveted bunker face. On the public liability my experience when I looked into it was that the insurance company do not have any issues with this.

In the end I think it is down to personal choice as to what looks better but I would still say that the grass bunker is a very good choice often overlooked

Jon

[Thomas Dai]

Here are a couple more photos taken about 18-months ago of the revised bunkering at Aberdovey. The work was undertaken/overseen I believe by N Wales based architect David Williams.








I have some other/better ones but the photo sharing app up is not playing ball just now.


Posting photos herein has become such a pain.


atb

[Adam Lawrence]

No, it wasn't, Thomas. It was done by Scottish architect John Kemp.

[Thomas Dai]

No, it wasn't, Thomas. It was done by Scottish architect John Kemp.

There are JK references on the web, mostly magazine articles, and I was told "some Scottish blokes did it" but .........



See - http://www.aberdoveygolf.co.uk/news_more.asp?NewsID=93
And
http://www.williamsgolf.co.uk/2012/03/aberdovey-golf-club/





Nice bunkers though, whoever did them.


Calling Sherlock Holmes!


Atb

[Adam Lawrence]

David is local and may have had some supervisory role.


But:

http://www.golfcoursearchitecture.net/content/the-renaissance-of-aberdovey