Rakes in or out of the bunker

[K Rafkin]

I don't think there is one correct answer.  Its really a matter of choosing the lesser of two evils, neither of which is all that evil.


For courses that play F&F with small bunkers surrounded by short grass, rakes need to be placed inside the bunker or in a manner that would not prevent a ball from rolling into the bunker.


For courses with with bunkers surrounded by long grass that prevent the ball from from rolling into a bunker where game is most commonly played in the air, then placing the rake on the outside of the bunker is the best option.


Im sure there will be scenarios where it makes equal sense to place the rake in the bunker as it does on the outside.  Either way, perhaps we should just accept that rakes are a part of the course and not get all too caught up in how they impact play.

[Bill_McBride]

Course in Florida is cart path only until late afternoon. All rakes are left in the cart saving maintenance costs both while cutting the grass and raking bunkers

Cart path only every day?  Why would anybody play there?


What if you walk, do you have to carry a rake?

[Bill_McBride]

What a bunch of nerds.  My maintenance guys say in, so that they don't have to get their lazy asses off the mowers to move them.   

What about when they run the sand pro through the bunkers?

[scott_wood]

Quote from: Cliff Hamm on April 21, 2016, 05:52:31 pm[size=0px] Course in Florida is cart path only until late afternoon. All rakes are left in the cart saving maintenance costs both while cutting the grass and raking bunkers[/size]

Cart path only every day?  Why would anybody play there?What if you walk, do you have to carry a rake?
Bill, Mountain Lake is this way. ...... A great walking course, so we walk and/or push cart with a rake, club length, in our bag....not a problem at all..".


 Logged

[Bill_McBride]

Quote from: Cliff Hamm on April 21, 2016, 05:52:31 pm[size=0px] Course in Florida is cart path only until late afternoon. All rakes are left in the cart saving maintenance costs both while cutting the grass and raking bunkers[/size]

Cart path only every day?  Why would anybody play there?What if you walk, do you have to carry a rake?
Bill, Mountain Lake is this way. ...... A great walking course, so we walk and/or push cart with a rake, club length, in our bag....not a problem at all..".


 Logged

Scott, I don't think I've seen you since that great weekend at Mountain Lake with Bernhardt and Sweeney.  That was fun!

[archie_struthers]

Really have looked at this issue In detail.  At the end of the day , my take is keep them out!  Just the other day we had two incidents with rakes in my group alone, with balls lodging against them and leaving the player with no shot.


The average golfer just doesn't think enough about placement of the rake , and the middle of the bunker is the only place to leave them .


As to greens crews and having to get off their machines, so be it.  Actually most crews work on the bunkers daily , which isn't the case with cutting the grass surrounds.

[Ronald Montesano]

I vote outside. I try to position them so that I stop following golfers from rolling into the bunker. I feel that it is my civic duty to keep them out of the sand.

[Dave McCollum]

What a bunch of nerds.  My maintenance guys say in, so that they don't have to get their lazy asses off the mowers to move them.   

What about when they run the sand pro through the bunkers?

We don't have a sand pro or rake our bunkers on a regular basis, just as needed, such as when the deer are rutting.  The wind, golfers, and irrigation do most of the work.  Are they pristine?  Hell no.  Are they consistently inconsistent?  Yup.  Strangely, we get more complaints about bunkers being too firm than too fluffy.  My crappy game prefers firm sand over plugged lies.   

[Cliff Hamm]

Quote from: Cliff Hamm on April 21, 2016, 05:52:31 pm[size=0px] Course in Florida is cart path only until late afternoon. All rakes are left in the cart saving maintenance costs both while cutting the grass and raking bunkers[/size]

Cart path only every day?  Why would anybody play there?What if you walk, do you have to carry a rake?
Bill, Mountain Lake is this way. ...... A great walking course, so we walk and/or push cart with a rake, club length, in our bag....not a problem at all..".


 Logged

Sorry, not cart path only, but is cart only.  In Florida it is rare that is not cart only and we are fortunate that you can walk in the afternoon.  Most courses have long green to tee distances so walking is precluded.

[Bill_McBride]

After some reflection I think the best plan is to put the rake head inside the bunker and the handle resting on the bunker lip, elevating the handle.  I think that minimizes the opportunities for the rakes to interact with golf shots. 

[Charles Lund]

At New South Wales Golf Club,  rakes are outside the bunker.  To make it clear where outside the bunker the rake is to be placed, thin lines in the shape of a rake are painted on the grass.

I personally like rakes outside the bunker, off to the side of the bunker facing the direction of play.  Many players are conscientious how they place the rake in the bunker, but some players are oblivious to how rake placement affects the next shot into the bunker.

At four USGA tournaments where I was a volunteer caddie, orientation focused on how to rake and where to leave rake, namely outside and off to the side, preferably in the rough as opposed to the fairway.  The rationale was they didn't want a rake carelessly left in a poor position in a bunker to determine the lie in the bunker.

Charles Lund

[Forrest Richardson]

I have an opinion, and provide some good science for the position:


http://www.golfgroupltd.com/writings/great_rake_debate.html


Ian - you are correct! Go collect your winnings 

[John Cowden]

The "propped position", with the rake handle directed back along the line of play, more or less, was "adopted" at Pasatiempo several years ago, not that it was widely communicated nor universally followed by any means.  I believe Jim Urbina may have contributed to the idea.

[Sean_A]

I have an opinion, and provide some good science for the position:


http://www.golfgroupltd.com/writings/great_rake_debate.html


Ian - you are correct! Go collect your winnings 

I agree with you Forest...mostly because the rake handle sticks up making it easier to grab and it looks far better than the other low contact solution of rakes standing in a holder....seen that at a few places and it looks dreadful.


Ciao


Ciao

[Pete_Pittock]

Reminds me of an afternoon at Black Lake (Onaway, MI). After a long drive from Traverse City I set out to walk the course, even though they were pushing cart usage. After 12 or so holes I finally hit one in a bunker. Couldn't find a rake, smoothed as well as I could and then proceeded to hit many more bunkers. After a few holes I encountered a course worker and mentioned the lack of a rake, and was told '"it's in your cart", "what cart?" "doh".

My preference is outside the bunker, away from play, but at the end of the day a survey of rake positions wouldn't lead to hint of what is the policy.

Bunker slopes should be firm so that a ball will roll to the bottom and not plug in the face. When I see a rake next to a steep slope in the bunker, I will reposition the rake to keep thoughtless golfers from scaling the slope and making a lot of work for maintenance
rake 

[Sam Kestin]

I just got back from England where I played Rye Golf Club. Rye utilizes something like the PVC piping method described earlier in the thread--with the bunkers standing vertically just outside of the non-fairway side of the bunker.


I thought this was brilliant. So much so, that I spent the better part of the first six or eight holes raving to my caddie about what a genius move I thought this was, how the Brits are so much smarter than we Americans, how it eliminates the possibility that luck can factor in, how unlikely it is that any ball catches that inch or so worth of diameter standing up, etc.


Ninth hole at Rye is a very drivable par four especially with the wind we had--down off the right. Took out driver to go for the green and just tugged it ever so slightly. Ball looks like it's heading just left of the cross bunkers some 30-40 yards short of the green. May trickle into the rough but should be no problem--a par four at worst.


Ball hits the wood shaft of the rake left of the bunker and kicks dead right just inches under the sod wall face of the hazard. No forward play possible and my only avenue of play was a sideways pitchout into the heavy gorse. I make double bogey.


Caddie says "your trip wouldn't be complete without a little taste of the British sense of irony."

[archie_struthers]

 

[archie_struthers]

 




Used to be a firm believer in rakes in bunker.  Now, after years (decades ) of observation have gone full circle the other way . You just can't educate everyone on the proper place to leave them inside the bunker.  I've seen good members trying to be tidy put them under the lips regularly , often creating problems for the players to follow. Same with rangers and maintenance workers , they often don't play well enough to understand the right way to place them . My apologies to all who do.




This being said , outside and away from the green. Looks better and works .