[Mike Sweeney]

One of the problems is that the members who are against tree removal do not play some of the great courses that benefitted so greatly from removing trees--they just play Metropolis and don't really get "playability" of a course.  If we removed more trees, I truly belive that Metropolis would be right up on the list of the top courses in Westchester-certainly equal to Century, Fenway, Knollwood et al. 

Julian,

I used to play with a family friend who is one of your better senior players. He is a great guy with a blind spot (sort of like Pat Mucci)  . He actually thinks that Metropolis is the best course in Westchester. He is deadly straight and still I remember him hitting/altering 3-4 trees from in the fairway shots to the green.

I do agree with you that Metropolis could move way up with significant tree work. Good luck.

[Robert Mercer Deruntz]

The layout should not be judged by what a bunch of fools on the greens committee did over the years.  The course is one of the best in an area with many great courses.  The problem is that the 10th will never be able achieve its former greatness because of the tennis courts and with modern ball going to far, it would never play like it once did.  The biggest problem that Metropolis has is a lack of land and room for lengthening tees.  This should nnot be held against the quality of its design.

[ChipOat]

Robert,

Since this is a golf architecture website, I feel compelled to take issue with your contention that, in so many words, a course (not just Metropolis) should not be judged because a bunch of trees have been allowed to get in the way of playability.

Well - those trees ARE (unfortunately) a BIG part of the playability.  They don't denigrate the quality of what's on the ground, but they sure do effect the impact of what's on the ground or our ability to experience a good bit of it when playing our shots.

How can they be ignored so long as they're, undeniably, a big factor.

I confess that, to me, your position is akin to saying that one shouldn't consider the prevailing wind when judging the merits of Pebble, TOC, NGLA, Dornoch, etc.  How can you ignore something so essential to the shot making just because it isn't on the ground?

I'm not trying to hi-jack this thread, but...... 

[Phil_the_Author]

Chip,

I must disagree with your contention. I don't believe the tree issue at Metropolis or any other course is as much an architectural issue as it is a MAINTENANCE issue. Trees that are allowed to grow without pruning and/or to full height after nature finds a way to plant them where they should not be is akin to allowing putting surfaces to shrink in size in order to save money in the maintenance budget.

Worse still are the trees that are deliberately planted for "beautification" purposes; these too are not an indictment of a course's architecture as much as one of club management...

[ChipOat]

It is my opinion that encroaching trees BECOME part of the architecture - regardless of why.

Another analogy I would make is also my second biggest pet peeve - that being Golden Era greens that are now maintained at far higher stimp speeds than those greens were ever designed to carry.  The current ridiculousness of some greens at many otherwise-marvelous courses may be, as you say, a function of maintenance, but it surely is a big factor in evaluating the playability (maybe even the "greatness"?) of whatever course is being discussed.

Also, we're probably arguing semantics, as well.

[Steve_ Shaffer]

deleted

[Steve_ Shaffer]

Here's a pic taken on my recent visit of October 1 showing bunker work on the 7th hole:

The bunker is about 50y in front of the green. The slope of the green is right to left. The hole is 431y from the tips, 419y from the blues and 376y from the whites. It's the #3 handicap hole on the course.



This is a picture of the left greenside bunker of the 13th hole. The hole is 234y from the tips,209 from the blues and 196y from the whites. It's the #14 handicap hole. It plays uphill. Out of bounds runs along the entire left side. The green has a back left tier which makes for some interesting putts.

[Steve_ Shaffer]

Here are some more pics taken during my recent visit:

The aforementioned claustrophobic 17th hole:





Comments will follow after Phillies game.  

[W.H. Cosgrove]

Above photos are a classic example of some of the mistakes made by well intentioned green committees making every attempt to modernize their golf course.

Top photo above shows trees along the right side of the fairway planted like a row of bowling pins ready to be knocked over.  The straight line is mistake that reads amateur to me.  Simply cut the trees into irregular stands and members will soon forget the row of trees.

When do you suppose the cart paths were added?  Directly in the line of sight, not tomention the line of play.  The crossover in front of the tee box was probably due to expediency rather than an eye toward architecture.  Any club that built tennis courts over a portion of the golf course in the seveties was clearly bwing to trends rather to the long term history of the club. 

Love the green complexes! 

A local course near me cut 360 trees this summer in an effort to get more light to thestruggling turf on their greens.  The result was to open large areas previously unappreciated where architecture had been shaped.  While it had always been there, the shaping was hidden amongst broken lines of ill advised plantings.  It was nice to see the course reappear.

[Steve_ Shaffer]

Here are some more pics:



The 17th hole again:


Another hole:



I didn't take a picture of the 6th hole. It's probably the most famous hole on the course. Here's something from the club's website:



HOLE SIX                 Par 4; 423 Yards; Handicap 1

This signature hole ranked by golf publications as one of 18 best in the Metropolitan Area and the 500 best holes in the world, proves that a relatively short par four with only one bunker by the green can be challenging. The hole starts with an elevated tee shot to a rolling, tree lined fairway that slopes left. The premium here is on accuracy off the tee.  The drive should favor the right side. If you are too far left your second shot may be obstructed. Longer hitters might consider an iron or 3-wood off the tee.  The downhill lie on your second shot makes it difficult to carry the bunker, so favor the side where the flagstick is located and avoid the pond right of the green.  There is not much depth to this two-tiered green, which has a ridge separating front to back. Any shot missed long over the green is a sure bogey or worse.


Metropolis is an interesting and challenging course. Although it is heavily treed, except for the 17th hole, I didn't feel constrained.  As Julian Wise, a member, pointed out above, the club seems to populated by "tree huggers." A good educational program by members who advocate a tree removal program is needed here.

[corey miller]

I wonder the extent to which Ken Dye encouraged the club to address the tree issue.  It is my experience that it is not something he has come close to stressing in his projects on classic courses in this area.

[Julian Wise]

Metropolis is a great course--one of the top 10-15 in Westchester County.  The green complexes are terrific, the terrain is wonderful and there are few, if any, bad holes on the course.  There are 2 big issues with the course that can easily be remedied--there are still FAR too many trees on the course and the greens are consistently slower than almost every other course of its caliber in the area--while I recognize that when greens are undulated, cutting them down too much will make them unplayable, keeping them so slow (about a 6) takes away from the wonderful design of the complexes.  As I have stated before, the older members do not understand (or care) that having so many trees on the course does not reflect the intention of the original designers--whenever a tree is cut down, the younger members applaud and the older members complain. I know Steve just played Quaker and Sunningdale and I am curious to hear his thoughts about how they compare to Metropolis.

[Patrick_Mucci]

Julian,

I'd rate Metropolis a little higher than you have, certainly in the top 10 and maybe better.

As to the old members not understanding the original design intent, is that really the case, or, is it a money issue ?

The second question I would ask is:  Who's currently in control, the old members or the younger members ?

Change doesn't come easy at clubs when it comes in one fell swoop.

Those trees became invasive without notice over the last 5 or so decades, but, their removal would get everyone's immediate attention, and therein lies the heart of the problem.

If those trees had reversed their growth pattern 25 years ago, they probably wouldn't be nearly the issue that they are today.
But, that's not how trees are removed from the corridors of play.
A harsh, clearing project must be accepted by the membership.  Failure to do so will only result in token trimming.

There are two solutions:

1.     An educational process is undertaken in order to accomplish tree removal.  This typically takes about 5 years.
2.     A Palace Coup takes place.   This takes about 5-16 weeks.

I prefer # 2 since the educational process and "baby steps" removal that follows takes far too long and can be sidetracked or stopped.

To context my advice, you should know that I favor the form of club governance employed at Friar's Head, Due Process, Hidden Creek, Bandon, Pine Valley, Seminole and others of similar ilk.

It's clearly the most efficient form of governance.

[Steve_ Shaffer]

I can't comment on ratings in Westchester as my experience is limited. I thought the greens at Metropolis were a little speedier than a 6 on the meter. I will say that Metropolis,if it were located in the Philadelphia area, would be more well known. It compares favorably with Manufactuers and Rolling Green and even Huntingdon Valley, all top notch Flynn courses.  I think it gets lost in Westchester.

The course is challenging and playable:

6784y 73.1/136
6518 71.9/135
5902 68.5/127

I would suggest a "mixed" set of tees yielding a 6200y course.

I'm working on my Quaker Ridge review.

[JMEvensky]

I wonder the extent to which Ken Dye encouraged the club to address the tree issue.  It is my experience that it is not something he has come close to stressing in his projects on classic courses in this area.

I'm curious about this too.I've played Metropolis several times,an uncle is a member.It's hard to focus on all the good stuff because you can't get your mind off the trees.

That said,it's a wonderful golf course.If Metropolis were transplanted to my part of the world,people would line up to play it.Westchester County is just a tough league to play in.

[Julian Wise]

Patrick,

You are correct that it will cost money to take down the trees and money is always an issue at clubs but even if money were no issue, many of the members simply do not have the desire to have a tree removal project and think it will hurt the beauty of the course.  I just looked at the makeup of the Board and I can assure you that the older members still run the Club (and effectively the course).  Our green chairman, who happens to be a terrific guy, is acutely aware and clearly understands the tree issue but unfortunately his voice sometimes gets drowned out by the many other members who don't get it.  I agree with you that things run perfectly at places like Friar's Head and Pine Valley where they are run by one person (and not committees) and Friar's has rightly elevated itself so quickly as one of the top courses in the area because of that.

[Richard Hetzel]

That is one NICE (insert expletive) GOLF COURSE...

[jeffwarne]

Julian:

I was following what you said very closely -- can you tell me what qualites you see in CC of Purchase -- given the extreme narrow corridors and the close proximity of the wetlands / forced carries which intrude.

Frankly, I see the CC of Purchase as one of the most strained Nicklaus courses to fit the nature of the property available.

If Metropolis were to cut significant trees down the elements of playability, better overall turf (not to say the place is poor by any means) and the enhanced strategic elements would all be a part of such a mixture.

Until that happens -- too much of what you face at Metropolis is bowling alley repetition.

Played Metropolis today
What a gem-many, many memorable holes.
So many great courses in Westchester


No doubt there has been some massive tree removal, and most that remain are quite stately, strategic, and attractive. (with the glaring exception of a tall, ugly, leaning vine infested weed tree on the 14th limiting the trajectory of the tee shot)
Could lose a few more but many are quite attractive-no evergreens around
What stands out mostly is the diversity and great use of the topography.
Sadly they have adopted the same glaring white faux sand all Westchester and Nassau County clubs seem to have, as well as electric green long bluegrass surrounds.


the fairway turf is wonderful and the new work looks pretty good-seems they are enlarging(or restoring) the greens but they are not marked as greens yet-will be interesting to see how that turns out.


I found it a very difficult course, especially with the gnarly rough and new, soft, heavy sand.

[Michael J. Moss]

Cudos to Ron Forse's work at Metropolis!

Their iconic par-4 6th (greatly improved!)

[Michael J. Moss]

[Robert Mercer Deruntz]

With the restoration work, it appears that the course has some mean teeth.  Low score today in the Met PGA Senior Championship was par, and the winning score for two days was +2!

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