Rees and RTJ2 shut out in GD ratings (again).

[Gary Sato]

What does it say when these two have now failed to place a course in the top 100 the last 4 years?

Bobbys Prince course in Hawaii dropped for 107 to 114.  
Spanish Bay which at one time a top 100 course has now dropped to 198 and is in danger of falling off either list with the next ballot.   Chambers Bay (site of the years US Open) continues to fall now ranked 130 down from 121.  
Southern Highlands in Las Vegas moved up from 187 to 166

Rees had his beloved Ocean Forest drop from 128 to 134.  
Atlantic moved up to 119 from 124 based on some nice bunker work.  
Torrey Pines continues to uninspire panelists dropping from 159 to 177.
His mega money project Cascata drops from 180 to 189.

Is the Jones American architecture style stale?

[Ronald Montesano]

If Rees is to have a top 100, I predict it will be a course near Atlantic, not named Atlantic. It's rise will not be based on what Rees did.

[Garland Bayley]

...
Is the Jones American architecture style stale?

I don't think Chambers Bay can be classified as "Jones American architecture style".

[Bill_McBride]

...
Is the Jones American architecture style stale?

I don't think Chambers Bay can be classified as "Jones American architecture style".

No but designed by Jay Blasi while under the RTJ Jr flag. 

[jeffwarne]

What does it say when these two have now failed to place a course in the top 100 the last 4 years?

Gary,
Go to Golf Digest thread, click on link.
Go to #1 ANGC then click on that link
There it is -Robert Trent Jones Jr. ASGCA no less (Who knew the cofounder of ANGC also must've founded the ASGCA?years ahead of his time)

[Daniel Jones]

Should someone inform Mr. Payne that they have the wrong portrait hanging in Butler Cabin?

[Andy Troeger]

Chambers Bay is good enough to be on the list, IMO. The Patriot, near Tulsa, is also quite good although I doubt it has the votes to qualify for the top 200. It is easily good enough, at least to me!

Can't really make much of a case for any of Rees' original courses, but I haven't played many of them.

[KMcKeown]

What about The Blessings in Fayettville?  It's a great course IMO.

[K Rafkin]

Chambers Bay is good enough to be on the list, IMO. The Patriot, near Tulsa, is also quite good although I doubt it has the votes to qualify for the top 200. It is easily good enough, at least to me!

Can't really make much of a case for any of Rees' original courses, but I haven't played many of them.

I agree.

I think its likely that the "turf issues" that chambers has been experiencing, well since forever has held it back.  That and the fact that they allow public access so thats already two major taboos right out of the gate.

[Matthew Sander]

K Rafkin,

Please correct me if I'm wrong, but over the last year or so, hasn't there also been a series of rotating temporary greens in play to allow for changes and turf health for the upcoming Open?

[K Rafkin]

K Rafkin,

Please correct me if I'm wrong, but over the last year or so, hasn't there also been a series of rotating temporary greens in play to allow for changes and turf health for the upcoming Open?

You are not wrong.  Im trying to get the point across that the temp greens, and overall course condition (which is explained as Preparation for the Open) has worked against Chambers overall rating given the fact that conditioning is one of the key criteria.   

Can you confirm if Chambers has indeed received ballot submissions while it has been undergoing its "US Open preparations".  If so are these raters instructed to rate the course as it will play once the Open preparations are complete, or have they simply rated the course based on what temp greens were in play the day they played?  If the latter is indeed true I'm sure you can agree that Chambers hasn't received a fair assessment. 

[Ronald Montesano]

If i were Chambers Bay and could choose between hosting a US Open and being ranked by a magazine...well, why even present the second option? The first is immortality. It can never be taken away, unlike a whimsical rung on a ladder.

[Joel_Stewart]

The upper course at Baltusrol moved up 1 spot to 58 after making its debut 2 years ago.  I'm told Rees has slowly (with a lot of club involvement) has performed some nice work there.  The lower dropped from 35 to 41. Is it possible that the lower will someday overtake the upper?

Bethpage dropped 1 spot to 43.

[Steve Lapper]

The upper course at Baltusrol moved up 1 spot to 58 after making its debut 2 years ago.  I'm told Rees has slowly (with a lot of club involvement) has performed some nice work there.  The lower dropped from 35 to 41. Is it possible that the lower will someday overtake the upper?

Bethpage dropped 1 spot to 43.

Joel,

    Rees did do some decent, if not unexceptional, work on Balty Upper. The result of which is that the majority of the membership prefers playing it over the Lower. In reality, neither course deserves to be south of the mid 90s at best. I believe TD is scheduled to be coming aboard to look at restorative work on both courses. Hope so for my member-friends sake.

[Paul Jones]

What about The Blessings in Fayettville?  It's a great course IMO.

I have played The Blessings once and it was one of the most difficult courses that I have ever played = no fun.  With that said, I really liked the routing and layout and most of the pain I suffered was because of maintenance.

I am just surprised that someone else has played that course that is not a college golfer.

Paul

[Joel_Stewart]

Joel,

    Rees did do some decent, if not unexceptional, work on Balty Upper. The result of which is that the majority of the membership prefers playing it over the Lower. In reality, neither course deserves to be south of the mid 90s at best. I believe TD is scheduled to be coming aboard to look at restorative work on both courses. Hope so for my member-friends sake.

I'm confused why Doak has not started work at Baltusrol?  I know they are hosting the PGA in 2016 but now they have let 2 years pass without moving any dirt.  Its a shame that some of those very cool looking bunkers and formations will not be restored before the PGA.  With that said, I assume they don't want to do just a few bunkers making the course look disjointed. 

[KMcKeown]

Paul,

I totally agree.  The Blessings MIGHT be the hardest course I've ever played.  We had zero maintenance issues.  I think it was harder than Oakmont, Butler, Oak Tree National l, Dismal (Nick) and other GDigest courses with high resistence to scoring.  The first hole is a little goofy with the massive slope to the green but after that just stellar.  We tipped it out the second 9 just to see how far 7800 yards plays and it was nuts.

I'm not sure Ive really ever payed much attention to RTJ after playing some of the RTJ Trail courses that were all marginal but this place was fantastic.  Cool modern club house, Prov1s on the range, top shelf throughout.

[Joel_Stewart]

Ron Whitten on Morning Drive this morning said he was surprised that neither Jones had a top 100 course?  Considering the trends he discussed, he probably was being diplomatic.

As for projections on the next list, he did say he expected Chambers Bay to move up.

[Jason Way]

I played The Bridge in 2014.  For the first few holes, I was impressed.  It was hard in a fun way, worked its way over the property nicely, and the views were outstanding.  By the second nine, something was bothering me and I couldn't figure out what it was at first.  Then I realized that it was boredom.  I felt like I was playing the same hole over and over again on the 4s.

Is this a common experience for those of you who have played several Rees Jones courses?

I asked Ron Whitten a question on Twitter about his personal prioritization of the ranking criteria.  Here was his response:

"My personal test is a great course should look & play a little differently on every hole from every tee"

This speaks to the "shot values" criterion, and based on my very limited experience, perhaps the raters have the same issues...