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Anthony Gholz

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Re: Colt & Alison in North Americ
« Reply #50 on: September 08, 2015, 08:46:40 PM »
Phil:


Westwood (Rocky River, Ohio) is on the list at #28, although this new article is new.  Thanks for that.  Oakwood is new to me.  Help me out there.


Tony

Rich Goodale

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Re: Colt & Alison in North Americ
« Reply #51 on: September 09, 2015, 01:28:56 PM »
Vis a vis Detroit, a local newspaper story about CC of Detroit's hiring of Archie Simpson as head professional, indicated Colt (who had been hired to resdesign their course) was expected to be attending a welcome dinner March 25, 1911, to be attended by "200 Detroit enthusiasts." (Source:  "Robert Simpson--Carnoustie"; Mishler, 2001; p132.).

Archie Simpson (the long time Royal Aberdeen pro who had designed Murcar and worked with Old Tom Morris on Cruden Bay, Dornoch and many others), supervised the construction of the 1911 Colt course.  Archie also was the pro at Tam O'Shanter for a while, so perhaps he helped C&A build that one too.
Life is good.

Any afterlife is unlikely and/or dodgy.

Jean-Paul Parodi

Anthony Gholz

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Re: Colt & Alison in North Americ
« Reply #52 on: September 10, 2015, 09:44:57 AM »
Rich:


Great connection of The CCD with Tam. Another lead.  I'll review with my Tam connection later this month. 


Thanks. Tony

Sven Nilsen

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Re: Colt & Alison in North Americ
« Reply #53 on: September 10, 2015, 11:30:58 AM »
Regarding Canoe Brook, I would like to see solid evidence of Alison's involvement with the South Course.


The North Course was built in 1902 and reworked by Travis in 1916.  The attributions for the South Course have been confusing to track, with Willie Park, Isaac Mackie and Alison each being given credit in different sources. 


Park's involvement was most likely limited to scouting out a site and offering his opinion on its suitability.  An Oct. 1925 Golf Illustrated article (the online version I've seen is truncated and only the page copied below is available) notes the selection of club professional Mackie's plans from a number that were submitted with work beginning on clearing in 1922 and the course opening in 1924. 


"As much as we have learned about the history of golf architecture in the last ten plus years, I'm convinced we have only scratched the surface."  A GCA Poster

"There's the golf hole; play it any way you please." Donald Ross

Sven Nilsen

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Re: Colt & Alison in North Americ
« Reply #54 on: September 10, 2015, 11:36:55 AM »
A fairly contemporaneous July 1932 Golf Illustrated article gives a bit more insight into both courses.  There is no mention of Alison or Park, but it does note that Maj. R. A. Jones raised and reworked the greens on the South Course.











"As much as we have learned about the history of golf architecture in the last ten plus years, I'm convinced we have only scratched the surface."  A GCA Poster

"There's the golf hole; play it any way you please." Donald Ross

Sinclair Eaddy

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Re: Colt & Alison in North Americ
« Reply #55 on: September 11, 2015, 03:24:15 AM »
Anthony, like a lot of GCA ers I've played many of these CA courses. A number of the clubs list as their architect the firm of Colt, MacKenzie and Alison. I know MacKenzie was only with the firm for four years. As part of your project do you actually delineate courses that were built during the Mackenzie period? It seems a few clubs take some pride in including MacKenzie on the design team for attribution purposes.

Anthony Gholz

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Re: Colt & Alison in North Americ
« Reply #56 on: September 11, 2015, 10:16:54 AM »
Sven: I agree with Canoe Brook being "vague" and haven't seen anything in writing (GI, American Golfer, etc), but Frank and Paul list as 1922 and until I can refute them I'll keep it in the NLE columns as an Alison 1922/23 design.


Sinclair: If you note I list C&A or CM&A or just Colt (prior to WWI).  See Port Huron Golf Club (my course) where I list CM&A/C&A.  I do that because the firm from 1920 incorporation thru 1922, and maybe 1923 kept up the sham that MacKenzie was a part of the show.  I do not list him after 1923 and I'm heading toward after 1922. At PH, Alison's first course design in NA, I list CM&A because the firm was brand new and Alison's letters, and firm letterhead that I've seen, definitely list MacKenzie both on the masthead and individually.  However, after 1923 the letterhead and advertising say C&A.  IMO Mackenzie did no work with Alison or for the firm in NA and was basically in competition with his own (ostensibly) partners.  At Port Huron the 1928 archive has letters which list C&A as the firm with CA&M(orrison) listed as partners and Lavis as the American Partner and Martin for the "Continent of Europe." Port Huron also has pre-printed white line blue prints with C&A as the architects, even as Morrison is listed as full partner under C and A on the letterhead.  The PHGC letters are dated from September 7, 1928 thru November 16, 1928.  One of the drawings is hand dated October 23, 1928.


Therefore IMO the clubs in NA that trade on Mackenzie's name along with C&A are kidding themselves.  I believe that they can easily say C&A knowing Alison was the sole designer of their course because 1) that was the firm name and 2) he definitely started at the master's feet.  But clearly was on his own in NA even in the redesign of Colt originals ie. Toronto and Ancaster.
Tony

Sven Nilsen

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Re: Colt & Alison in North Americ
« Reply #57 on: September 11, 2015, 10:40:56 AM »
Sven: I agree with Canoe Brook being "vague" and haven't seen anything in writing (GI, American Golfer, etc), but Frank and Paul list as 1922 and until I can refute them I'll keep it in the NLE columns as an Alison 1922/23 design.




Seems to me you have a column just for this type of confusion.  At the very least, you should note Mackie and the Golf Illustrated article. 


Sven
"As much as we have learned about the history of golf architecture in the last ten plus years, I'm convinced we have only scratched the surface."  A GCA Poster

"There's the golf hole; play it any way you please." Donald Ross

Anthony Gholz

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Re: Colt & Alison in North Americ
« Reply #58 on: September 11, 2015, 09:10:48 PM »
Sven:


Just back from playing our Alison course!  Had dinner looking out at Alison's ninth green.  Very intimate setting watching the local HS girl's team come up their last hole.  Realized that the original tenth tee was under our dining room table.  Definately the first taste of fall in Michigan today. 


I'll make the notes you suggest re: Canoe Brook, but would like to see something more direct.  Was hoping Frank/Paul might have something more.  Thanks as always for your comments and contributions to this site.


Tony

Sven Nilsen

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Re: Colt & Alison in North Americ
« Reply #59 on: June 06, 2016, 11:26:54 AM »
Followup on Tam O'Shanter from a fairly contemporaneous source.  Pretty clearly not an Alison original design, but rather a four hole renovation.

Detroit Free Press May 21, 1939 -






"As much as we have learned about the history of golf architecture in the last ten plus years, I'm convinced we have only scratched the surface."  A GCA Poster

"There's the golf hole; play it any way you please." Donald Ross

Anthony Gholz

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Re: Colt & Alison in North Americ
« Reply #60 on: June 06, 2016, 02:24:27 PM »
Sven:


As discussed offline Ollie Glennie was the original architect on site.  I'm still trying to confirm Reid's renovations done after Alison was on site.
Rambouillet was a US agricultural site for raising, you guessed it, sheep.


Anthony