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Bill_McBride

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Re: Make an argument for a more underappreciated Scottish par three
« Reply #25 on: June 24, 2014, 08:01:39 AM »
Ian,

Really cool-looking hole. Thanks for sharing it.

I liked that hole a lot.  After butchering the uphill par 4 13th, I knocked a driver in the middle of this beast and lifted my spirits!  The following short par 4 was fun too.  Those holes were a bit out of place on an otherwise pure links. 

Jim Sherma

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Make an argument for a more underappreciated Scottish par three
« Reply #26 on: June 24, 2014, 08:39:19 AM »
I really liked the set of threes on the New Course:

#5 - Kind of secluded atmosphere in a bowl surrounded by gorse - the classic table top style green with the weird drop off that cuts into the green on the back right

#9 - Awesome uphill hole along the Eden. Blind over a little ridge at the front that leads to great anticipation as you walk up the hill to see where your ball ended up (and it precedes #10, one of my favorite holes anywhere)

#13 - Green benched up along one of the higher dunes - very interesting set of options as to how to get the ball to sit on the green without leaving an ugly downhill chip from over the green.

#17 - I kind of consider this a candidate for a template on a firm site - long hole with a bunker short asks the question as to where to land the ball in order to get it to stop near the hole - the open nature of the land opens up some uncertainty about the distances required - I found this hole very challenging while using very few architectural tools to accomplish it (short bunker and general lack of definition)

Tom_Doak

  • Karma: +3/-1
Re: Make an argument for a more underappreciated Scottish par three
« Reply #27 on: June 25, 2014, 02:56:46 AM »
15th at Nairn

The hole is a downhill par three of around 200 yards with the ocean clearly visible as a panorama from the high tee. The bunkers all appear to be directly in front of the green, yet the prominent front bunker turned out to be well short with a hidden sunken fairway in behind. This was just like the fairway at the 17th at Merion and it made me wonder if Hugh Wilson had possibly seen this before building Merion. The fairway then rises up into a magnificent false front which leads into a very wild green. The bulk of the green is a high front and right plateau, but what makes this one very memorable is the wildest back swale and pin position I have seen in a while. This all adds up to one excellent golf hole. The only question I would have is could you bounce in your approach in

I swear that hole was the 14th at Nairn when I played it years ago?

Ronald Montesano

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Make an argument for a more underappreciated Scottish par three
« Reply #28 on: June 25, 2014, 06:07:46 AM »
15th at Nairn


I swear that hole was the 14th at Nairn when I played it years ago?

Time passes, children (and golf holes) get older and gain a year~
Coming in 2024
~Elmira Country Club
~Soaring Eagles
~Bonavista
~Indian Hills
~Maybe some more!!

David_Tepper

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Make an argument for a more underappreciated Scottish par three
« Reply #29 on: June 25, 2014, 09:42:37 AM »
Per the scorecard, it is indeed #14 at Nairn:

http://www.nairngolfclub.co.uk/scorecard.php

Niall C

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Make an argument for a more underappreciated Scottish par three
« Reply #30 on: June 25, 2014, 02:26:26 PM »
Gentlemen (& occasional lady),

I present the 6th (formerly 9th) at Renaissance Club:

148 yards the back, 137 yards one tee box forward.

Green running front to back and also left to right.

Regardless of wind it's a challenge to flight the ball just right, with consideration for the wind, green firmness, green slope... the perfect opportunity to visualise a shot and then (the hard part) execute it.

Playing towards the Firth of Forth is a hell of a backdrop.

And just look at the texture that rough adds to the hole, and the solitary off-centre tree. Artistic in the extreme.

Come at me! Name a better, more under-appreciated one-shotter played under St Andrew's Cross.



Scott

 Having just 4 putted this green today along with my playing partner, who probably would like to remain anonymous, I could gladly give Tom a hand redesigning it he really wanted  ;)

Niall

Frank Pont

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Make an argument for a more underappreciated Scottish par three
« Reply #31 on: June 25, 2014, 05:30:36 PM »
I kind a like this one, but then I am conflicted.....


Adam Lawrence

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Make an argument for a more underappreciated Scottish par three
« Reply #32 on: June 25, 2014, 05:49:28 PM »
Gentlemen (& occasional lady),

I present the 6th (formerly 9th) at Renaissance Club:

148 yards the back, 137 yards one tee box forward.

Green running front to back and also left to right.

Regardless of wind it's a challenge to flight the ball just right, with consideration for the wind, green firmness, green slope... the perfect opportunity to visualise a shot and then (the hard part) execute it.

Playing towards the Firth of Forth is a hell of a backdrop.

And just look at the texture that rough adds to the hole, and the solitary off-centre tree. Artistic in the extreme.

Come at me! Name a better, more under-appreciated one-shotter played under St Andrew's Cross.

Scott

 Having just 4 putted this green today along with my playing partner, who probably would like to remain anonymous, I could gladly give Tom a hand redesigning it he really wanted  ;)

Niall

Said anonymous partner seemed a broken man from my vantage point on the clubhouse terrace. How did it come to pass?
Adam Lawrence

Editor, Golf Course Architecture
www.golfcoursearchitecture.net

Principal, Oxford Golf Consulting
www.oxfordgolfconsulting.com

Author, 'More Enduring Than Brass: a biography of Harry Colt' (forthcoming).

Short words are best, and the old words, when short, are the best of all.

Sean_A

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Make an argument for a more underappreciated Scottish par three
« Reply #33 on: June 25, 2014, 07:09:25 PM »
Scott

The 6th is one of the main holes I wish I could have played into a headwind.  Playing downwind the green is an incredibly small target and with green speeds of 10ish a very difficult 2 putt.  While still very hard, par was much easier had with the slower greens of the 1st day.  While very severe, I think I would nominate the 9th as the best 3 at RC. 

I am not sure how famous they are, but Brora's 6th would certainly make my short list of tough to beat.  Same for Burnside's 9th and 14th.

Ciao
New plays planned for 2024: Nothing

Bill_McBride

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Make an argument for a more underappreciated Scottish par three
« Reply #34 on: June 25, 2014, 08:24:39 PM »
I kind a like this one, but then I am conflicted.....



Frank, where is that?   Wow!

Bill_McBride

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Make an argument for a more underappreciated Scottish par three
« Reply #35 on: June 25, 2014, 08:28:52 PM »
One of my favorite par 3s is the fifth at the St Andrews New Course.  There's a terrific front bunker and a swale of great depth within the green.   After four fairly banal opening holes - unless you don't comprehend until too late that the third green is a DOUBLE green - the fifth is a real wake up call that the course has teeth pretty much all the way in. 

Michael Goldstein

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Make an argument for a more underappreciated Scottish par three
« Reply #36 on: June 25, 2014, 09:28:34 PM »
Frank, is that the spare hole at Cruden Bay?
@Pure_Golf

Michael Tamburrini

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Make an argument for a more underappreciated Scottish par three
« Reply #37 on: June 26, 2014, 02:10:36 AM »
I kind a like this one, but then I am conflicted.....



It depresses me to think that the bunker got filled in.

BTW, yes - it's the spare hole at Cruden Bay. 

Grant Saunders

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Make an argument for a more underappreciated Scottish par three
« Reply #38 on: June 26, 2014, 03:47:31 AM »
I thought the 5th hole at Fortrose and Rosemarkie was a cool little hole.

133 yards and the day I played it the head wind was so strong that I hit one of the sweetest 4 irons of my life and made the front edge.

This photo is from the clubs website:



Another I found interesting was the 8th at Nairn Dunbar. Maybe not one you would class as great but good fun all the same.


Niall C

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Make an argument for a more underappreciated Scottish par three
« Reply #39 on: June 26, 2014, 07:13:26 AM »
Gentlemen (& occasional lady),

I present the 6th (formerly 9th) at Renaissance Club:

148 yards the back, 137 yards one tee box forward.

Green running front to back and also left to right.

Regardless of wind it's a challenge to flight the ball just right, with consideration for the wind, green firmness, green slope... the perfect opportunity to visualise a shot and then (the hard part) execute it.

Playing towards the Firth of Forth is a hell of a backdrop.

And just look at the texture that rough adds to the hole, and the solitary off-centre tree. Artistic in the extreme.

Come at me! Name a better, more under-appreciated one-shotter played under St Andrew's Cross.

Scott

 Having just 4 putted this green today along with my playing partner, who probably would like to remain anonymous, I could gladly give Tom a hand redesigning it he really wanted  ;)

Niall

Said anonymous partner seemed a broken man from my vantage point on the clubhouse terrace. How did it come to pass?

Adam

Many thanks for asking me to relive the experience, that's kind of you. (where's the "I want to hang myself" emoticon ?)

As you know, David and I were punching so far above our weight we should have been wearing a Costa Rica football jerseys, witness the previous hole where we managed to guddle a win to half the match when a loss looked more likely. So when the tee shots at the next were played and we were on the green (back right) and Simon and Ben had missed right, we kind of sensed that another upset might be on the cards. That's when we traded in our Costa Rica strips for Keystone Cops uniforms. A complete debacle. Much like the Scotland football team of old, promise much but ultimately ends in glorious failure. Now, does anyone have a length of rope I could borrow ?

Niall 

Niall C

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Make an argument for a more underappreciated Scottish par three
« Reply #40 on: June 26, 2014, 07:21:31 AM »
Scott

The 6th is indeed a very fine golf hole. Interestingly one of our fore caddies, a youngster with a plus handicap, was absolutely scathing about the green and I think my story above shows you why. The chances of calamity are just too great for the pencil and card fraternity to stomach while in matchplay, it really is a hole where it isn't all over until the ball is in the hole.

Niall

Adam Lawrence

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Make an argument for a more underappreciated Scottish par three
« Reply #41 on: June 26, 2014, 07:26:38 AM »
Gentlemen (& occasional lady),

I present the 6th (formerly 9th) at Renaissance Club:

148 yards the back, 137 yards one tee box forward.

Green running front to back and also left to right.

Regardless of wind it's a challenge to flight the ball just right, with consideration for the wind, green firmness, green slope... the perfect opportunity to visualise a shot and then (the hard part) execute it.

Playing towards the Firth of Forth is a hell of a backdrop.

And just look at the texture that rough adds to the hole, and the solitary off-centre tree. Artistic in the extreme.

Come at me! Name a better, more under-appreciated one-shotter played under St Andrew's Cross.

Scott

 Having just 4 putted this green today along with my playing partner, who probably would like to remain anonymous, I could gladly give Tom a hand redesigning it he really wanted  ;)

Niall

Said anonymous partner seemed a broken man from my vantage point on the clubhouse terrace. How did it come to pass?

Adam

Many thanks for asking me to relive the experience, that's kind of you. (where's the "I want to hang myself" emoticon ?)

As you know, David and I were punching so far above our weight we should have been wearing a Costa Rica football jerseys, witness the previous hole where we managed to guddle a win to half the match when a loss looked more likely. So when the tee shots at the next were played and we were on the green (back right) and Simon and Ben had missed right, we kind of sensed that another upset might be on the cards. That's when we traded in our Costa Rica strips for Keystone Cops uniforms. A complete debacle. Much like the Scotland football team of old, promise much but ultimately ends in glorious failure. Now, does anyone have a length of rope I could borrow ?

Niall 

We saw the tee shots from the balcony, and, noting that you'd had the honour, figured that you must be in pretty good shape to pull off a big upset after those shots.

A little later I took a look at where the pin was cut on that green and the four putt became more comprehensible!
Adam Lawrence

Editor, Golf Course Architecture
www.golfcoursearchitecture.net

Principal, Oxford Golf Consulting
www.oxfordgolfconsulting.com

Author, 'More Enduring Than Brass: a biography of Harry Colt' (forthcoming).

Short words are best, and the old words, when short, are the best of all.

Frank Pont

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Make an argument for a more underappreciated Scottish par three
« Reply #42 on: June 26, 2014, 10:58:42 AM »
Gentlemen (& occasional lady),

I present the 6th (formerly 9th) at Renaissance Club:

148 yards the back, 137 yards one tee box forward.

Green running front to back and also left to right.

Regardless of wind it's a challenge to flight the ball just right, with consideration for the wind, green firmness, green slope... the perfect opportunity to visualise a shot and then (the hard part) execute it.

Playing towards the Firth of Forth is a hell of a backdrop.

And just look at the texture that rough adds to the hole, and the solitary off-centre tree. Artistic in the extreme.

Come at me! Name a better, more under-appreciated one-shotter played under St Andrew's Cross.



Here a picture from the actual tees, where you see a lot less. Maybe they should have a tee on the clubhouse balcony  ;)


Brett Hochstein

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Make an argument for a more underappreciated Scottish par three
« Reply #43 on: June 26, 2014, 07:11:01 PM »
I really liked the set of threes on the New Course:

#5 - Kind of secluded atmosphere in a bowl surrounded by gorse - the classic table top style green with the weird drop off that cuts into the green on the back right

#9 - Awesome uphill hole along the Eden. Blind over a little ridge at the front that leads to great anticipation as you walk up the hill to see where your ball ended up (and it precedes #10, one of my favorite holes anywhere)

#13 - Green benched up along one of the higher dunes - very interesting set of options as to how to get the ball to sit on the green without leaving an ugly downhill chip from over the green.

#17 - I kind of consider this a candidate for a template on a firm site - long hole with a bunker short asks the question as to where to land the ball in order to get it to stop near the hole - the open nature of the land opens up some uncertainty about the distances required - I found this hole very challenging while using very few architectural tools to accomplish it (short bunker and general lack of definition)

For some reason the New Course kept popping into my head as well, mostly 9 and 17.  The 9th might be the most "natural" hole out on the Links with no revetted bunkers and marram and wispy fescue growing into the hummocks and hollows leading into the green, though that growth only adds texture and doesn't prohibit run-up shots. 

The 17th would be my nomination just from personal experience and circumstance. For the conditions I played in during my 3 day ticket in September (very fast turf, medium strong westerly wind), it plays as one of the best par 3s I've ever played.  The fronting bunker was in the exact place I wanted to land my ball.  Since it was a 3 day ticket and I was playing until moonlight, I had the opportunity to test it and prove it true.  Awesome challenge and fun.  I did play again that following winter with calm conditions, and the bunker was not as much an issue.  Fortunately though, the prevailing conditions on the Links are much more like the former.

Other holes that are popping into my head without thinking too much are the 2nd at Kingsbarns, the adjacent one shotters on the Eden, the 2nd at Elie, and the 11th at Askernish if every running ball on the left didn't shoot down the road. 
"From now on, ask yourself, after every round, if you have more energy than before you began.  'Tis much more important than the score, Michael, much more important than the score."     --John Stark - 'To the Linksland'

http://www.hochsteindesign.com

Niall C

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Make an argument for a more underappreciated Scottish par three
« Reply #44 on: June 29, 2014, 02:31:41 PM »
Playing a lot of golf in an out of the way part of the country (Moray) in the last few years has made me appreciate courses that will never be great but have some great holes on them. More often than not they are par 3's. In no particular order therefore (sorry no pictures)

4th Moray Old - probably originally designed as a drive and pitch hole back in the day, it has a small bathtub green with open front, and with the green slightly angled. Yardage is c.200 yds.To the rear is a road and out of bounds hard against the back of the green, while to the right of the green are large folds in the ground. The angle of the green and slope in the side of the green from the bathtub effect suggests you would be able to run the ball up the sides like 1st at Renaissance, which you can a bit but unfortunately its got a bit mossy and maybe needs a fix. Great hole that you appreciate more with every play.

7th Strathlene (?) - probably got the numbering wrong but it sits up on a ridge with panoramic views that the owner of Balmedie could only dream of. Rather like the short hole on the Glen or the second on Kingsbarns, the tee shot plays over the shoulder of a hill/mound with shots landing short left kicking into the green with the green tilted towards the mound.

6th Ballindalloch Castle - short par 3 played from an elevated tee to a green beyond a burn and surrounded by silver birch trees with simple bunkering front left and right. Green has gentle undulations, nothing extravagant, just a simple but lovely hole.

3rd Boat of Garten (?) - again could have got the numbering wrong but another really nice hole.

Niall

Andy Shulman

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Make an argument for a more underappreciated Scottish par three
« Reply #45 on: June 29, 2014, 11:46:56 PM »
I second the 3rd at The Boat and - since it hasn't been mentioned - will offer up the 5th at the Eden Course in St. Andrews.  An original Colt hole, it shares a tee box with the par-3 8th hole, but is the better - and more difficult - of the two.  Check it out at http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,49924.0.html.

Ally Mcintosh

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Make an argument for a more underappreciated Scottish par three
« Reply #46 on: June 30, 2014, 03:59:27 AM »

4th Moray Old - probably originally designed as a drive and pitch hole back in the day, it has a small bathtub green with open front, and with the green slightly angled. Yardage is c.200 yds.To the rear is a road and out of bounds hard against the back of the green, while to the right of the green are large folds in the ground. The angle of the green and slope in the side of the green from the bathtub effect suggests you would be able to run the ball up the sides like 1st at Renaissance, which you can a bit but unfortunately its got a bit mossy and maybe needs a fix. Great hole that you appreciate more with every play.



I liked this hole a lot. I paced out the width of the green at 8 yards. Bunker left but the bad miss is right where you will find it impossible to stop your ball on the green hitting back in to a front pin position... or OOB long of course

Niall - Please start a thread on Moray... It needs some love...

Out of them all, I think this course most surpassed my expectations on my recent trip round the Highlands... Golspie being close behind...