[Paul Gray]

Would TOC be better if every grain of dirt, every blade of grass were in exactly the same spot as it was when Young Tom Morris was alive?

I suspect for a certain number of Golf Club Atlas participants the answer to that would be an enthusiastic "yes".

Obsessively believing that all change is good is no more silly than obsessively believing that all change is evil. Every single change, every single bit of evolution of a golf course must be judged on the results, not on simple-minded reverence for either "chance" or "stasis" as ends to themselves.

Exactly. No ideology which promotes a definitive drive towards 'progress' will, by definition, be anything but biased.

[Sean_A]

Eventually you have to accept that something can't be improved any further. The fact that the very notion contradicts the concept of continual improvement inherent within the American Dream can only lead to the conclusion that the American Dream, by way of not being able to recognise or even accept the concept of leaving well alone, has damaged golf.

Consider this, would TOC, for all of the R&A's recent tinkering, be anywhere near as well preserved if it happened to be state side?

Paul

You may be right,  but I don't see a glass ceiling anywhere I look.  To me, the question isn't can we make it better, but what does it cost to make it better?  Is it worth while trading up with an amenity for the extra money when in at least some cases, the old amenity ain't broken? Furthermore, what is the cost in terms of new participation if the goal is contunually trade up on the amenity?  Essentially, what is better is a personal expression.  For me, better is cheaper, more managable golf courses using less inputs with an understanding that there will be times when the course suffers for lack of input.  That is something I can happily live with, but a great many others won't.

Ciao

[Peter Pallotta]

Interesting. We appear to be of two minds around here. We've had countless threads arguing that there are no rules in gca, and/or suggesting that greatness is subjective, and/or concluding that rankings are merely collective opinions; and yet we've also had countless threads about what the best course in X is, and/or asking how to make Y even better, and/or decrying the renovation of course Z -- as if we in fact believe that there are indeed gca rules, and that greatness is objective, and that courses are quantifiable in terms of excellence. So, to answer your question, Mike -- if anything is killing golf, maybe it's our doublemindedness. And maybe we're looking for golf/golf courses to give us something that they simply can't give, except in very rare instances/circumstances. 

Peter

[Terry Lavin]

Eventually you have to accept that something can't be improved any further. The fact that the very notion contradicts the concept of continual improvement inherent within the American Dream can only lead to the conclusion that the American Dream, by way of not being able to recognise or even accept the concept of leaving well alone, has damaged golf.

Consider this, would TOC, for all of the R&A's recent tinkering, be anywhere near as well preserved if it happened to be state side?

You're right; we've made a mess of everything. Don't talk to us anymore.

[Mike_Young]

IMHO what continues to be missed is just the basic common sense involved with making a profit or breaking even in any endeavor.  The industry knows a club either has to increase green fees to be profitable or in the case of private clubs dues have to be raised to allow for improvements of any kind.  I know of no other industry that operates as the golf industry.  Good business men step all over their weiners when it comes to doing golf deals.  Because of a club's ability to enhance RE or to be promoted as a top amenity for a resort property, day to day operations are placed on a backburner.  Whether it be  irrigation, mowers, chemicals and fertilizer, range balls, locker rooms, dining rooms, cart paths, halfway houses and various other amenities are there to sell homes....they are used to marrket the "American Dream" and in doing so they destroy a game.

[jeffwarne]

  Good business men step all over their weiners when it comes to doing golf deals. 

Love that quote

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