Should the use of temporary winter greens be a genuine cause for irritation?

[Jim McCann]

I played the other day at North Berwick and - despite having to use fairway mats (even from the semi-rough) - was thoroughly enjoying the experience until reaching the famous 13th, where the approach shot has to fly the dyke that runs diagonally across the fairway in front of the green.

For the first time this close season (as I later found out), the regular green was out of use for some sort of maintenance and a temporary winter green was in place to the RIGHT side of the wall, totally ruining the setup of the hole. Here’s a snap from behind, with the winter green on the left: 



I remember the regular green for the famous “Postage Stamp” hole was out of play the first time I visited the Old course at Royal Troon in the winter, leaving me feeling a tad short changed.

And when I visited Tralee a few years ago in early April, the green of the par three 3rd hole on the shore was still being protected from sea spray by straw bales so another temporary hole was in use a little way along the coastline.

I just wondered if anybody else has come across a similar situation, especially at this time of year, when a hole taken out of play or a green site moved has caused the level of vexation that I felt standing on the tee at “Pit,” North Berwick’s 13th?

Or maybe golfers just have to take such things on the chin and be glad they have the chance to play a full 17/18ths of a (somewhat shortened) world-ranked course for 55 bucks in the dead of winter?

[Adrian_Stiff]

Jim - I would say as long as your are told before that there are (x) temporary greens and the green fee is not full price you cant really Lilly Allen. If your not told its quite unfair I think especially if it is full price. When you look at Troon at £200, how much is it worth to play that wee 8th, I think probably half the fee is that one. If you are playing that hole to the left side I wonder what they charge without. It would certain be a real nirk to only play Troon once and miss that one. Pebbles 7th would be another and plenty more no doubt.

Although the health of the turf is primary so sometimes these things are essential.

[Tom_Doak]

Jim:

Regarding the employment of winter greens, the greenkeeper has to do what he has to do ... usually it's the smallest greens (Postage Stamp) or those in hollows (the Pit) where freezing and thawing cause the most maintenance issues. 

Regarding paying to play the course under those conditions, if the winter green fee is half as much, then you are probably getting what you pay for, though it's always going to disappoint.  The most vexing one I know of is at Riviera, where on certain days of the week the greens on #6, #10 and/or #16 may be out of play ... and they don't charge winter prices!

[Jon Wiggett]

Jim,

I think for maintenance then there is a good reason to close the green whilst it is been carried out. Generally however with free draining sites which are established then only excessive wear is a reason to close greens in the winter IMHO.

Jon

[Ally Mcintosh]

As long as you are told prior to the round then it would cause me little to no irritation. Given that all inland courses in Scotland used to have temporary winter greens until they started reconstructing them all with sand bases, 1 out of 18 seems not a bad return

[Thomas Dai]

I cannot abide playing on temporary greens with modern equipment. Don't mind it so much with hickories however, (but will avoid if coupled with shaft damaging mats)
atb

[Mark_F]

I played Royal County Down in November 2012 for 50 quid with the 8th and 11th greens taken out of play.  I didn't know until I arrived that that would be the case, but it didn't worry me.  At any time of the year a golf course will possibly have something going on that prevents you from playing a hole as intended. 

It's disappointing if you are only ever going to have a single visit, but I still managed to have a look at 8 and 11, and I figured 50 quid to play a course like RCD is an absolute bargain; next time I play there those two will probably be in play, and it will be a couple of other holes out of play, so it evens up.   

[Niall C]

Jim

As Tom D said, the greenkeepers have got to do what the've got to do. At least at Troon the winter green on the 8th hole is worth playing to.

Interestingly enough I had a business meeting yesterday with someone on the committee at Gullane and got talking golf. He mentioned at the recent AGM that there was a suggestion from the floor that perhaps the club should consider either preferred lies or playing off mats. I'm pleased to say that was given short shrift. In my view Gullane continues to provide the best winter golf in Scotland.

Adrian

Interesting you mention prior knowledge. I recall doing a winter trip to the highlands once and trying to book Dornoch. I was advised that we didn't need to book and that the cost would be £65 (from memory) for a round. I advised we were travelling from the central belt and would be booking accommodation etc so would prefer to book a tee time. I was again advised no need.

As the date of the trip got closer I phoned another couple of times to check everything was OK and see if we could book a time. Again I was advised everything should be OK. So on the due date, my friend and myself pitched up at the club and made ourselves known to the contact in the office. She enquired if we had handicap certificates (I did but my friend didn't). My friend advised he played of 6 to which she said, "that should do" in a rather off-hand manner. We were then directed through to the pro shop to pay our green fee. It was only as we were handing over our hard earned dosh, the pro casually advised that two of the holes were out of play (par 3 6th and 13th (?) ) because they were relaying turf on the greens, and that we would be playing off winter tees. On quite a few of the holes that mean't teeing off a good 100 to 150 yards up the fairway. I doubt I've ever been so deflated on a golf course as I was then. In truth, I felt we had been conned.

So if you ever wonder why I tend to give Dornoch a hard time, despite the fantastic hospitality I've since had there from DT and Rich, then now you know.

Niall

[Sean_A]

Yes, it would be much better if club websites included detailed info of hole closures, temp greens, closed tees etc.  Often times the pro doesn't know the situation or won't offer the info if it is known.  But then, providing all that info about course issues would probably scare visitors away. 

I don't mind if I am told stuff up front, but to turn up and find out such and such about course condition is tantamount to fraud on the part of a club.  I make a good effort to make sure I find out what the score is before committing so I feel very aggreived if I end up surprised at the pro's counter.  I recall the last time this happened to me at Blackwell.  We were told the greens were a bit off due to hollow tining.  That was in truth a lie.  The greens were about the worst I have ever seen.  It will be a long time before I go back there and only if I am satisified the course is in better nick than it ever has in my experience been before.  To be honest, I don't go to Swinley anymore because the club takes the piss with fat green fees and less than average conditioning.  I guess its the only recourse.  Fool me once....

Ciao

[John Kavanaugh]

I called up today because my wife and I wanted to go on a snow hike across the course. I was told I could if I stayed on the paths. Cart path only hiking. Greenskeepers are out of control.

[Kevin_D]

Would you feel differently if you were a member instead of a visitor?

[Greg Chambers]

I'd be far more irritated by having to play off a mat than by having to play into one temporary green.