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Philip Gawith

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Cabo San Lucas Golf
« Reply #25 on: January 06, 2014, 06:10:34 PM »
I made my debut last week at Cabo San Lucas and can only add to the chorus of praise that the best courses get. Diamante is really a spectacularly beautiful course that can easily stand alongside other beauties,, like Cape Kidnappers,  but it is not just about the setting - also many wonderful holes. I read Jay Flemma write elsewhere that his big critique of the course concerned inability to play the ground game. I suspect the conditioning has evolved quite a bit since then because although it would be wrong to say the course plays like an out and out links, it is certainly closer to that than to a simply aerial style course.

I suppose the holes that stood out most for me were the stunning selection of short holes, especially 2 and 11, but also 5 and  16 which play towards the sea; 14-18 is a fantastic finish. Hard to think of a better 45 minutes on a golf course than the journey from the green on 14 with its view through to the 17th tee. Not sure about the criticism of 18 - i think it is a bit of brute coming at number 18, but definitely a hole that requires very good golf to finish. 15 is maybe the pick of the par fours, but holes like 3 and 4 are also excellent. Only downside of a magical experience ( i played twice thanks to hooking up with a member) was the sales pitch which was pretty bare-knuckled. As MWP says, when 12 are 13 are replaced the course which will reach even greater heights. Will be fascinating to see how the "Tiger" course emerges when it opens. If you believe the sales guys there will be a third course (also "Tiger"), the "Jungle" (!!) course, styled on Shadow Creek. It will take a lot of economic growth to reach that point. On the other hand, i have never seen as many expensive private jets as at the Cabo airport - comfortably 40 i would guess, so there is already lots of money.

The course that came to mind when playing was Barnbougle Dunes (new world links) which gets a lot of justified love from  GCA. I can't remember the course well enough to go through hole by hole, but i am inclined to put  Diamante above it. It is certainly a more compelling site - you can probably argue about the golf.  Incidentally, i walked/carried my bag for 90 per cent of Diamante. It is true that i was able to hitch a ride to 10 on a buggy and that 10 itself is an uphill slog, but i would say the course is broadly walkable for most people in reasonable shape. I am not sure anyway that it is an option for visitors to just walk without a caddie or buggy, so you may as well just accept the buggy/caddie and walk at the same time.

As for the Cabo de Sol courses, i really enjoyed them both. Seems that part of the secret to a good round is teeing off later - we did not see anyone else when we teed off at 12 midday on the Ocean Course. Desert course also pretty quiet played from mid am start. But the practice ground, which has taken a lot of traffic, suggests that quite a lot of golf is getting played.

Ocean Course i thought 2-8 is a great section, and so too 15-18, and nothing too much wrong with the rest. 5 and 16 are great links-style two shotters into the wind; some very good par 5's like 4 and 15; 6 and 17 are the rewarding seaside holes. I don't remember the Desert Course quite as well, save to say - contrary to Jay Flemma - that it is the first nine which lingered longer in the memory. I thought the short par fours ( 4 and 7) were really excellent, and i take my hat off to anyone who builds a blind 245 yard par 4 in the midst of a 6,700 yard course. Incidentally, setting up two driveable two shotters for average woman golfers within four holes (respectively 191 yards and 177 yards) is completely unique and does wonders for the morale of the golfer.  

I endorse the views about the fine food at Cabo clubhouse, especially the natchos!

ward peyronnin

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Cabo San Lucas Golf
« Reply #26 on: January 06, 2014, 07:49:20 PM »
Phillip

Pity I will in Cabo next friday/ You fail to mention but I hope you were able to enjoy the matchless fish taco etc comfort stations , the multi ball branded Led Zeppllin surrounfdsound practice ranges, and the incomparable  Alma who anchors the clubhouse bar but then I spose those are atmosphere clicks for the Golf Digest raters and not cogent for GCA

Best Wardo
"Golf is happiness. It's intoxication w/o the hangover; stimulation w/o the pills. It's price is high yet its rewards are richer. Some say its a boys pastime but it builds men. It cleanses the mind/rejuvenates the body. It is these things and many more for those of us who truly love it." M.Norman

Philip Gawith

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Cabo San Lucas Golf
« Reply #27 on: January 07, 2014, 02:41:39 AM »
Ward, i agree that the tacos after 10 at the  Ocean Course were memorable! Listening to Tom Petty's "Breakdown" on the range at Diamante is a good memory, but then there was quite a bit of dross too! Overall i am not sure about that particular innovation, but I suppose each to their own! Likewise, four comfort stations offering you a bewildering array of temptation is fun by way of variety but feels a bit OTT!

Michael Wharton-Palmer

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Re: Cabo San Lucas Golf
« Reply #28 on: January 07, 2014, 09:10:14 AM »
Phillip,
Glad you enjoyed your maiden voyage to paradise and that Diamante did not let you down.
As a member there I carry a certain amount of bias, other than to say the only reason I became a member was secondary to my first visit there and falling in love with the place so that I joined before leaving the premises even though my budget perhaps suggested otherwise was a better idea.
I have no regrets on my "impulse" decision and each time we return we are thankful for making that initial move.
Having spent a good deal of time with Paul on the Tiger course a few weeks ago. it will be a good addition to the Ocean course.
The lay our is very well put together a good array of green shapes and bunkering suggesting that the desgin team are keen to make there mark as being less than plain.
The use of the land flow is very clever a good array of dune like and desert like terrain maximimising the elevation changes that exist on the site.
The stretch from14-18 looks like it will be the most memorable on the course, interseting to see if that it still the case once the project is completed.
Not sure I like the concept of the third 18 myself, I would rather move down the coast a short ways and bulid another 18 amongst the dunes that are present to the right of number 15....some terrifc land that stretches for about 2/3 miles there ;D

Philip Gawith

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Cabo San Lucas Golf
« Reply #29 on: January 07, 2014, 10:27:21 AM »
Michael, I suspect if I lived in the Midwest as opposed to London I would certainly have been more susceptible to the impulse purchase! When you drive down the course from the main road there are some amazing undulations which would certainly add interest to a golf course - and maybe those extend to the Tiger course? Semi-related - not sure about the Nicklaus course on the mountain - will it rarely be fun playing around a  mountain, as opposed to quirky/goofy? I am frankly surprised that the planning authorities have allowed golf so far up the slope - feels just a bit intrusive to me!

Michael Wharton-Palmer

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Cabo San Lucas Golf
« Reply #30 on: January 07, 2014, 11:08:43 AM »
The Tiger course number 17 tee is very close to the front gate, so yes that elevation change you were aware of has been optimised.
I walked up to the Nicklaus course and those holes that are so eveident will be specatcular, awesome views but I agree rather obtrusive.
Interesting that Jack was able to get building permisiion yet when the original drawings for the new 12/13 at Diamante were dismissed as too proximal to sensitives areas.
The only good thing about that is once Jack built the gloves were off and 12/13 could go ahead ;D

Jud_T

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Cabo San Lucas Golf
« Reply #31 on: January 07, 2014, 11:15:50 AM »
MWP,

How would you characterize the average wind on the Dunes?  It was blowing a steady 20-25 when I was there.
Golf is a game. We play it. Somewhere along the way we took the fun out of it and charged a premium to be punished.- - Ron Sirak

Michael Wharton-Palmer

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Cabo San Lucas Golf
« Reply #32 on: January 07, 2014, 11:38:41 AM »
Jud,
From my experience vey varied .
I believe that May and June it blows at about 25/30 nearly all the time.
When I was there just before Christmas, we had three "still" days, blowing about 5/10 two days when it was 20 mph and one day when it was really fun/brutal and blowing at least 35, blowing balls off tees etc..
Number 16 for instance I hit driver 2 2irons and a 6iron...it was brutal but alot of fun.
So I would say if you expect 15/ 20 mph that would be normal.

Greg Tallman

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Cabo San Lucas Golf
« Reply #33 on: January 07, 2014, 07:24:33 PM »
fun/brutal and blowing at least 35, blowing balls off tees etc..
Number 16 for instance I hit driver 2 2irons and a 6iron...it was brutal but alot of fun.

That must have 135 MPH wind to have you hit driver, 2-iron, 2-iron, 6-iron on a 150 yard par three!!! Gracious.  ;)

Jim Smith Jr

Re: Cabo San Lucas Golf
« Reply #34 on: January 07, 2014, 07:26:18 PM »
I played Chileno Bay today - they only had 12 holes open as they were doing work on cart paths but the 12 I played are solid. The course does not look like a typical Fazio.... It actually looks more like a Gil Hanse design with lots of movement in the ground; tee boxes blended into the surrounds; pretty severe greens; and rough-hewn bunkering. The front nine has some terrific holes and the back is higher up with more elevation change. It was hard to fully evaluate without playing all the holes and conditions are still a bit shaggy and soft as they continue to prep for a full opening. That said, it absolutely has strong bones and I hope to get a chance to see the place in its full splendor when I'm back in December and report back.

Greg Tallman

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Cabo San Lucas Golf
« Reply #35 on: January 07, 2014, 07:30:51 PM »
I played Chileno Bay today - they only had 12 holes open as they were doing work on cart paths but the 12 I played are solid. The course does not look like a typical Fazio.... It actually looks more like a Gil Hanse design with lots of movement in the ground; tee boxes blended into the surrounds; pretty severe greens; and rough-hewn bunkering. The front nine has some terrific holes and the back is higher up with more elevation change. It was hard to fully evaluate without playing all the holes and conditions are still a bit shaggy and soft as they continue to prep for a full opening. That said, it absolutely has strong bones and I hope to get a chance to see the place in its full splendor when I'm back in December and report back.

Jim, Sorry I missed you at CDS. Chileno is very good and a bit of a departure from a tyipcal Fazio as you suggest.

To respond to Kyle's question/comments about access I do believe their intention is to not only remain closed to the public but become very, very private. The sales team they assembled in mid-December convinced them to stay private and will push to be ultr private so we shall see.

Jim Smith Jr

Re: Cabo San Lucas Golf
« Reply #36 on: January 07, 2014, 07:54:22 PM »
Greg - playing ocean tomorrow at 7am. Will come find u afterwards (prob 9:30am....we play FAST!)

Michael Wharton-Palmer

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Cabo San Lucas Golf
« Reply #37 on: January 08, 2014, 09:01:55 AM »
oops...make that #14..good pick up GT ;D

Kyle Casella

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Re: Cabo San Lucas Golf
« Reply #38 on: January 08, 2014, 09:49:26 AM »
I played Chileno Bay today - they only had 12 holes open as they were doing work on cart paths but the 12 I played are solid. The course does not look like a typical Fazio.... It actually looks more like a Gil Hanse design with lots of movement in the ground; tee boxes blended into the surrounds; pretty severe greens; and rough-hewn bunkering. The front nine has some terrific holes and the back is higher up with more elevation change. It was hard to fully evaluate without playing all the holes and conditions are still a bit shaggy and soft as they continue to prep for a full opening. That said, it absolutely has strong bones and I hope to get a chance to see the place in its full splendor when I'm back in December and report back.

Jim, Sorry I missed you at CDS. Chileno is very good and a bit of a departure from a tyipcal Fazio as you suggest.

To respond to Kyle's question/comments about access I do believe their intention is to not only remain closed to the public but become very, very private. The sales team they assembled in mid-December convinced them to stay private and will push to be ultr private so we shall see.

Thanks, I guess that explains it. I'm interested to see how it plays out with four high-end, private courses within such close proximity; I guess it all depends on the economy. Would have loved to have played it given the description and what I saw from the highway. How does it rank for you Greg compared to the other privates? Above Querencia and El Dorado but below Diamante?

Also, tried to find you at CDS the day I played but missed you. Course was in great shape as always and the pace was pretty good for this time of year!

Michael Wharton-Palmer

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Cabo San Lucas Golf
« Reply #39 on: January 08, 2014, 02:42:18 PM »
Kyle went I went by to see the great man he was out teaching...and here I am thinking he is nothing but the perfect front man and PR genius ;D

I was so impressed I went out looking for him, but still couldnt locate him

If ever a city had the perfect man to promote the game, Cabo has him in GT

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