[Matt Osborne]

Thanks for the info guys. much appreciated.

Having a look at the map, Desert Forrest looks like a big of a trek for the amount of time I will have as I don't want to spend the entire day traveling to and from the course.

I think I will narrow it down to Southern Dunes or We Ko Pa.  As I live in Dubai, I am not in need of seeing or playing a desert course, so would just like to play the one that is fun and architecturally interesting.  Thoughts?

[Ryan McLaughlin]

Saguaro is nice ( I personally enjoyed Cholla a little more, I know it is blasphemy in the tree house). If you are looking for a round by PHX check out the Raven Golf Club.  Well maintained and very enjoyable course.  It wont knock your socks off but has tons of personality.

[Tom Yost]

... Having played Saguaro, would you play Talking Stick North or Southern Dunes? After playing Saguaro I am tending to think that TSN may be at the very least similar, while Southern Dunes will give me an entirely different experience?

TSN will be similar although on a much less dramatic property.  Southern Dunes also on a flat site but a solid golf course and a good choice for something different.

I think I will narrow it down to Southern Dunes or We Ko Pa.  As I live in Dubai, I am not in need of seeing or playing a desert course, so would just like to play the one that is fun and architecturally interesting.  Thoughts?

Agree with the other Matt, Southern Dunes is not really a "desert" course.  A flat site that was re-vegged.  

Saguaro on the other hand, will give you a taste of the abundant native vegetation and rugged landscape of the Sonoran Desert, supposedly the wettest climate that can still be called a desert and probably very different than the desert in Dubai.  

[Scott Wintersteen]

I was just in Phoenix last week and played We Ko Pa Cholla, Longbow and the Superstition Mountain courses.  The Cholla course was in good shape and greens were running pretty quick.  Longbow is a good course if you are looking for the best value around Mesa.  We played Longbow in the morning so the greens were pretty slow but towards the end of the round they were starting to speed up.  Would defnitely recommend the We Ko Pa courses over Longbow because of conditioning.  But it sounds like you have a pretty good course lineup already.

[Ben Baldwin]

Thanks for the info guys. much appreciated.

Having a look at the map, Desert Forrest looks like a big of a trek for the amount of time I will have as I don't want to spend the entire day traveling to and from the course.

I think I will narrow it down to Southern Dunes or We Ko Pa.  As I live in Dubai, I am not in need of seeing or playing a desert course, so would just like to play the one that is fun and architecturally interesting.  Thoughts?

We Ko Pa will be almost as long a drive as Desert Forrest.

Southern Dunes is an Australian Sand-belt inspired course.  If looking for Non Desert feel and wanting to stay close to the sourthern end of the Phx metro area.  Southern Dunes and Raven Phoenix would be good options.

[Gib_Papazian]

The Duke at Rancho El Dorado is the hidden gem you're looking for. This is one of those rare courses you run into where an unknown architect (David B. Druziski) put his heart and soul into every little detail. The fees are reasonably cheap, so it gets huge points from me in the value department.

Is it a fancy-pants, Mr. Big Shot notch on your braggart bedpost? Nope. But every single hole had some interesting element to it. The surrounds are hardly impressive and there are a few houses about, but the entire experience shrieks of relaxed fun; the sort of golf course where you can hardly resist going out for another nine to take another crack at it.  

If you want to go totally upmarket, I suggest Mirabel CC. We've discussed it quite a bit over the years and it is worth a run to Scottsdale if you can weasel your way on.

[Greg Gilson]

Excuse my ignorance but are the courses at Troon North & Grayhawk some distance behind the courses mentioned? I haven't been to Scottsdale for some years but Troon North (especially) I always found lots of fun?

[Brian Stewart]

Excuse my ignorance but are the courses at Troon North & Grayhawk some distance behind the courses mentioned? I haven't been to Scottsdale for some years but Troon North (especially) I always found lots of fun?

Grayhawk, yes. Especially as it has become more and more jammed with houses over the years. Raptor is the better of the two and still a good course but it is way behind most of the places mentioned here.

Troon North is also hurt by housing although less on Pinnacle than Monument (especially the front 9) but I still love both of the courses.

I generally agree with the public courses listed here although I definitely don't think as highly of TSN as most here seem too. It is very good, no doubt, but there are plenty of public courses here that I would pick over it any time.

[Bill Buthorn]

I am new to this site.  I joined in Oct., but until now had little to add.  I am a retired teacher from WA state, which means I keep a close eye on the funds.  I really enjoy reading about the places many of you play or have played, but many of you need to realize there is a whole different world.  Perhaps I can connect with some of you in the future.  Regarding the Phoenix area, I have a small house in the Verrado development.  While many pay stupid money to play overrated courses in the Snotsdale area, I cannot recommend enough the West Valley.  Raven at Verrado is very good, and there are some other good spots as well, Estrella, Vistancia, Wigwam.  Red Lawrence did the Heritage at the Wigwam, which provides a very different test than the desert target stuff you usually associate with this area.  Play from the back, you will enjoy it, and appreciate the nuances of this designer.  If you are in the Az area during the winter, send me a note, I would love to play..

[Bill_McBride]

Bill, is the Heritage the Gold?   

[Bill Buthorn]

OK, so I beg ignorance.  The Lawrence course used to be the Red.  The gold is long, and hard.  It is a Trent Jones I course. Forrest Richardson updated it a few years ago.  I enjoy it too, but the old red is fun, playable, and nuanced.  

[Steve_ Shaffer]

Re: wigwam

Heritage is the former Red. Changes have been made to the original Lawrence design  over the years. It's my favorite of the 3 courses.

Patriot is the former Blue. This course may be turned into a 9 holer as the resort is planning an expansion and needs the land.

Gold is still the Gold. It's the premier course of the 3 .

[Bill Buthorn]

Steve,
Agree with you.  They say the Gold is the flagship course, but for a fun day of golf, where you do not get beat up too much, and in the end you say, "Lets go again,"  the Red, Heritage,  is my choice.  On a good day, the Gold is really good, and challenging and all, but I will play the Red and be happy.  Want to join me?

[Steve_ Shaffer]

Bill,

Check your private messages.

[Tom Yost]

Bill - Welcome to the site.   I'm with you and Steve - The West/Red/Heritage course at the Wigwam is my favorite of the three.  A nice traditional style parkland course with fun greens.  

Gib - A hat tip for mentioning the little known and rarely discussed Duke in Maricopa.  It is probably overlooked due to its mundane setting among tract housing, but the golf course is solid and a great value.  It has probably the most generous playing corridors of any real estate routing I've ever played, which means the housing is not intrusive at all.  An interesting layout with lots of variety and fun to play.

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