Fought to renovate Ross designed Wilmington Muni

[Paul Carey]

I saw it today in the Wilmingtonton Star News.  One benefit of the Muni is that it never had a Green Committee or board to modernize.  Fun cheap golf that generates almost 60 thousand rounds a year.   I don't know anything of Fought's work but it seems he is working off the original Ross plans.  Thoughts?

Article: http://www.starnewsonline.com/article/20131124/ARTICLES/131129742/1005/sports?Title=Golf-course-architect-John-Fought-at-work-on-Muni-plans

[Richard Hetzel]

I was looking at playing there next summer during my travels. I thought the course underwent some sort of renovation not all that long ago. Maybe it was just the bunkers.

[Carl Johnson]

I was looking at playing there next summer during my travels. I thought the course underwent some sort of renovation not all that long ago. Maybe it was just the bunkers.

Very, very vague recollection that the Donald Ross Society helped finance some of the bunker renovations.

[Paul Carey]

You were right.  Ran mentioned a complete renovation of 72 bunkers in 1996.  A link to his writeup: http://www.golfclubatlas.com/courses-by-country/usa/wilmington-golf-course-nc-usa/

A couple of paragraphs on the bunker renovation from the piece:
"  Reid Schronce,the Golf Course Manager and a PGA Member, knew something needed to be done and The Cityof Wilmington started todebate what steps to take. Fortuitously, Michael Fay of the Donald Ross Society happened to pay a visit to fellow DRS member Walker Taylor IV around that very time in 1996. Based on Fay’s subsequent recommendation after having seen the course, a series of events were put in motion that ultimately led to the complete restoration of all 72 bunkers at this municipal course. Not only was the work first rate but it was also done at a fraction of what it typically costs. Specifically, with people like Ron Prichard waiving their usual fee, the cost to restore each bunker was well under $3,000, which includes the shaping, bunker sand, sod, and labor of a three person crew.

The Ross Societyprovided two fold help for the City of Wilmingtonto undertake the bunker restoration project. The first was monetary in that they pledged $7,000 to defray some of the cost of the work. More importantly, they volunteered that Tom Devane, who was inDRS’s internship program under Ron Prichard, would provide onsite supervision torestore all 72 bunkers.Thrilled by this support, the Cityin turn donated the use of a backhoe, dump truck, andemployee assistance.

The project commenced inJuly 1998 with the City selecting Clyde Johnston Designs, Inc, who subcontracted the work to Southeastern Golf, Inc based in Georgia to provide the labor, equipment, equipment operators. Construction started on July 6th, 1998 andthe grand opening was on October 24th of the same year.

The Green Keeper Greg Crosswas heavily involved each step of the way and the end result was a collaborative effort of the sort that is curiously rarely seen. In the end, with the bunkers returned to their original configurations and depths of four to five feet, Ross’s design once again plays as he intended. It provides just the right blend of challenge and fun for the golfer while still allowing Cross to maintain the course under its tight maintenance budget."

[Tom_Doak]

a series of events were put in motion that ultimately led to the complete restoration of all 72 bunkers at this municipal course. Not only was the work first rate but it was also done at a fraction of what it typically costs. Specifically, with people like Ron Prichard waiving their usual fee, the cost to restore each bunker was well under $3,000, which includes the shaping, bunker sand, sod, and labor of a three person crew.

The Ross Societyprovided two fold help for the City of Wilmingtonto undertake the bunker restoration project. The first was monetary in that they pledged $7,000 to defray some of the cost of the work. More importantly, they volunteered that Tom Devane, who was inDRS’s internship program under Ron Prichard, would provide onsite supervision torestore all 72 bunkers.Thrilled by this support, the Cityin turn donated the use of a backhoe, dump truck, andemployee assistance.

The project commenced inJuly 1998 with the City selecting Clyde Johnston Designs, Inc, who subcontracted the work to Southeastern Golf, Inc based in Georgia to provide the labor, equipment, equipment operators. Construction started on July 6th, 1998 andthe grand opening was on October 24th of the same year.

So the Donald Ross Society donated enough money to restore 2 1/2 bunkers?  And the city decided they needed another architect and a contractor on board, too?

[Lester George]

Ron Pritchard donated his time, effort and fees so they could choose someone else in the future.  John Fought will do a great job as well.  Anyone know who the other 8 architects they talked to were?

Lester

[John Crowley]

Ron Pritchard donated his time, effort and fees so they could choose someone else in the future.  John Fought will do a great job as well.  Anyone know who the other 8 architects they talked to were?

Lester

John has done other restoration work in recent years.
Did one other Ross that I am aware of, Woodhill CC in Mpls.
Haven't seen it so can't attest results.

[Stephen Davis]

I have played a few Fought courses and always walk away pretty please. One of them is one of the true under-the-radar courses I have seen, Sand Hollow.

[Lynn_Shackelford]

So is there anyone here familiar with the process or plays the course?  I have some questions.

1.  Fought's fee is 17% of the total cost of the project.  Isn't this a bit high?

2.  Prichard did the original work pro bono?  Was he one of the 9 submitters?  I wonder why the city didn't show any loyalty?  He certainly is as well qualified as anyone in the submittal process.

3.  Are they changing the grasses in the greens?  I am guessing the $700,000 does not include the loss of revenue during the closure, and I wonder how much as been budgeted for grow-in, an area that is generally overlooked.

4.  If the city is raising the GF $2 to pay for the project, and their enterprise fund is paying for this, it is doing far better than most munis.

5.  Was The Donald Ross Society involved?

[Jeff_Brauer]

Lynn,

I do feel a bit bad if Ron wanted the job, but this $##( does happen.

As to the fee, we don't know what it includes. I note the city is doing some work in house on bunkers, etc., that has been designed by John, and if you took the full construction value of that, it would obviously lower the % of construction cost.

We also don't know if they added any out of scope services, such as extensive field visits, not to mention John may price projects to include travel time, actual work, etc.  For example, maybe his fee does include some consulting from the Ross society (just a guess, I don't know....although I know a few gca's who would raise their fees because they had to consult with the Ross Society....LOL)  In any event, the city obviously figured his specialized experience in Ross courses was worth the fee, so it is fair.

From the Ross renos and other renos I have seen John do, I bet it will turn out great.  It is a nice example of pretty preserved Ross architecture.

In the interest of full disclosure, I did look at the project, and declined to turn in a proposal because of the geography issues (they tend to hire closer, although in this case, not an issue) and my lack of Ross restoration chops.

[Brad Tufts]

I made a point to play WMuni back in 2004...the bunker renovation looked great then, even if you could tell there was some struggle maintaining the conditions of the renovated bunker slopes.

The funniest thing was in the pro shop...

"Two for golf please"

"That will be $12 each"

"But we are not residents of Wilmington"

"Ok, that will be $14, each"

Have to imagine $2 extra per golfer might still keep the GFee under $20!

[Kris Spence]

Not sure if Ron Prichard submitted a proposal or not, but the RFQ was limited to ASGCA members only.  The city ask me back in the summer to help them develop some probable cost for a scope of work they had outlined.  The estimate I provided was higher than what the RFQ mentioned by 10% and it did include an estimate for design fees.  The contract between the city and Fought  online is in line with the proposal for design fees I submitted, slightly higher but not by much.  

As a non member of the ASGCA, I wasn't permitted to submit a proposal for the work, only a probable cost for free!!!  Its part of the business sometimes.

Kris

[Doug Wright]

I played the course shortly after the re-do of the bunkers and I thought the course was really good.  Will be quite interesting to see what else is done (Ran mentions restoring the greens to their original sizes).

[Jeff_Brauer]

Brad,

At Wilmington, I took a picture of a cart path sign - "Stay on Paths, All 4 wheels, please!"  It is an attempt to address a long standing problem of carts pulling half off the path for little apparent reason, much like getting to the side of the road to let others pass.

[jim_lewis]

Fought did the restoration/renovation work at Pine Needles. At the time I was concerned that a guy from Oregon would have little familiarity with Ross's work, but I know he did his homework, and the result has gotten high marks.

[Greg Holland]

Fought did the restoration/renovation work at Pine Needles. At the time I was concerned that a guy from Oregon would have little familiarity with Ross's work, but I know he did his homework, and the result has gotten high marks.

First, let me say that I really like Pine Needles, and think Fought did a nice job there.  I think it is a great course and very challenging.  I also love Mid Pines and No. 2.  Having not done the homework, I am just curious -- set in the sand hills as it is, was Pine Needles ever more "wild" with sand waste areas and hazards like the recent renovations of the other courses?  I realize there are a few holes with waste areas, but was it ever just fairways and waste areas?

[Lynn_Shackelford]

Brad,

At Wilmington, I took a picture of a cart path sign - "Stay on Paths, All 4 wheels, please!"  It is an attempt to address a long standing problem of carts pulling half off the path for little apparent reason, much like getting to the side of the road to let others pass.

Jeff
Once I attended a meeting of golf course owners who presented their best ideas.  One idea was near the greens simply paint lines on both sides of the cart path.  It becomes a psychological barrier for drivers and they usually stay within the lines.  Ever since that I have made an effort to avoid "pulling off slightly" when I park near a green.

[Jim_Kennedy]

I had somewhat of a hard time finding WMCC on my first visit. It was during the morning rush hour, and a long time before the days of google maps or nav systems. After missing a few turns I ended up on Pine Grove Dr., the road that bisects the course, and as I looked out at the holes I remember thinking that I was going to be in for a lot of back and forth.
 
As it turned out, I was wrong. As the routing shows, you only get that feeling on four holes of the back nine, #s 12, 13, 14, and 15, even though there are 10 holes in parallel arrangement. You  never have that feeling on the front, and if I was going to only go around for 9 holes I'd choose them instead of the back (slicers might not agree with me ).   

Donald Ross was a clever man. 
     

[A.G._Crockett]

Ron Pritchard donated his time, effort and fees so they could choose someone else in the future.  John Fought will do a great job as well.  Anyone know who the other 8 architects they talked to were?

Lester

I had a copy of the list of finalists, and now can't find it.  I'll try to get a copy and post it.  I don't believe that Prichard was on the list, but wouldn't swear to it.  I remember Clyde Johnston and Richard Mandell for sure, and THINK I remember a couple of others, but I'll see if I can find the entire list.

[A.G._Crockett]

Right after my previous post, I found the list I was looking for.  The final list was 5, so 9 must have been a more preliminary list and I don't know who the other 4 were.  In any event, these were the last 5 on the very short list:

Clyde Johnston
Richard Mandell
Bobby Weed
Rick Robbins
John Fought

[michael j fay]

The Wilmington Municipal is a simple, mostly flat golf course built on land that was donated to the town by the MacRae family back in the 1920's. Hugh MacRae was responsible for the choosing of Donald Rodd as the Architect. Mr. MacRae also wmployed Mr. Ross as Architect in two private courses where he was an Incorporator. Those were Cape Fear and Linville Golf Club.

The Ross Society did kick off the bunker Restoration in 1996 with a grant to build a couple of bunkers. Ron Prichard donated the design and Tom Devane built the bunkers. They were well received and in 1998 the City of Wilmington ponied up $ 180,000 to finish the bunker work. This work was done by Clyde Johnson. There was no Donald Ross Society involvement in the work that Clyde did. Frankly, I was personally impressed with the result.

I have visited the Wilmington Muni numerous times over the years and have mourned the fact that they lack the funds to maintain the course any better than they have. This is not to say that it is not well kept, just overburdened and worn. Tees, fairways and greens are always well cut the are just no grooming funds.

The choice of John Fought is a good one. He has done very good work at Pine Needles, Rosedale in Toronto and Woodhill in Minneapolis. I am somewhat dismayed that there was a ASGCA caveat on the proposal as Kris Spence, Ron Prichard and other Restoration experts do not belong to the organization.

The Donald Ross Societies last involvement at Wilmington was an outing coupled with Cape Fear in 2008. We had no input on the list of Architects. There are a couple of Donald Ross Society Members in Wilmington who may or may not have had some input.

[Lynn_Shackelford]

Michael J. Fay

Thanks for providing some factual information.  This clears up a bunch of questions I had.

First I heard of Hugh MacRae.  Sounds like an interesting and instrumental character for that region.

Someone emailed me privately and speculated that Prichard may have bigger fish to fry.

[Tom_Doak]

Not sure if Ron Prichard submitted a proposal or not, but the RFQ was limited to ASGCA members only.  

As a non member of the ASGCA, I wasn't permitted to submit a proposal for the work, only a probable cost for free!!!  Its part of the business sometimes.

They contacted my office to see if I was interested in submitting a proposal, but when they sent the RFQ, I found that I wasn't qualified either, for the reasons stated above.  I didn't try to fight it.

I do hope they get their money's worth.  Everything I've heard about the course is positive, to the point that I wonder why they need to be doing anything to it.

[Mike_Young]

Not sure if Ron Prichard submitted a proposal or not, but the RFQ was limited to ASGCA members only.  

As a non member of the ASGCA, I wasn't permitted to submit a proposal for the work, only a probable cost for free!!!  Its part of the business sometimes.

They contacted my office to see if I was interested in submitting a proposal, but when they sent the RFQ, I found that I wasn't qualified either, for the reasons stated above.  I didn't try to fight it.

I do hope they get their money's worth.  Everything I've heard about the course is positive, to the point that I wonder why they need to be doing anything to it.

One day a city or state will unknowingly face a discrimination lawsuit using that qualification.