Should I be insulted?

[Jeff_Brauer]

Watching the Web.com tour (yes, I admit, like to hear my name on TV.....)

Among the comments were that the course is the easiest scoring average on the web.com tour.  Even though its designed as a country club, and not much room for expansion (although I did consult on adding a few back tees a few years back) I still have to admit it made me cringe a little, even as committed as I am to designing courses that are fun to play every day.

Should that bother me?

Also, the 9th was one of four ever par 4 holes in one a few years back.  (no problem there, it was designed that way.....)

[Bill_McBride]

As long as they spell your name right....

[Lou_Duran]

Did they grow the rough and pinch some of the fairways?  Was the wind blowing pretty normally during the tournament?

[Nigel Islam]

Its all about course set-up. They certainly don't set up Web.com events to be like US Opens.......

Plus you might be the first ever architect to make pro golfers happy

[Randy Thompson]

Jeff,
You know the answer and have stated many times, we can´t design for the minority of less than one percent. Especially if land is limited and our hands get tied as a result.

[Garland Bayley]

Probably means it's one of the shortest.

They have played Shadow Hills in Oregon. It has back tees that extend to an appropriate length, but is flat, has flat bunkers, and has flat greens for the most part. Can't imagine anything easier than that. Essentially, length is its only defense.

[Ken Moum]

Damnit Jeff, it's thinking like that that gets us with Member-Guest greens stimping three feet faster than normal, US Open courses butchered (or something) and new courses that are pushing 8,000 yards.

You should not be insulted, unless the people who hired you on the project said, "Some day we plan to host a professional golf event, and we really, really don't want them to shoot low scores on our course."

FWIW, if they did do that they deserve to be shot at sunrise by their members.

K

[Jim_Kennedy]

No. Just keep building sane golf courses.

[Pat Burke]

Jeff,
I've argued quite a bit that there is an enormous over reaction tot he distance a
small number of players hit the ball.
My favorite courses are not "Tour" long.
At 51 years old (and fat), I still hit it longer than all but a handful of members,
and rarely play the furthest back tees on our North course, it's just not very fun.

There are people who tie difficult and length to a good course.
I love the mentality of playing "fun" courses

[Jim Hoak]

Hard does not equal good.
So long as you identify a brand and stick to it, who cares how hard it is.  You can be successful as a French restaurant or as a hamburger stand, but you can't be successful it you don't know what you are.

[Carl Johnson]

Regarding pro tournament golf, the question is not the score relative to par, whatever that is, but does it provide a reasonable and fair opportunity for players to distinguish themselves from one and other.  If not, then maybe the course is not suited for professional tournament play, but, whatever, the real question is for the members' play: How do they like it?

[Tim_Weiman]

Jeff,

You shouldn't be insulted, but you should support me being appointed King. Promise I would ban professional golf on TV.

[Jim_Coleman]

   Too many suck ups here.  Yes, you should be utterly embarrassed.  You might want to consider retaining me as a consultant.

[Jeff_Brauer]

Thanks, guys.  Course plays par 71, with the second shortened to a 490 par 4, and total yardage of 7145, which is probably pretty short for these guys.

It always seems to provide some excitement, by virtue of being the last event for Tour Card qualifying, including some "battlefield promotions" right to the big tour (think Jason Gore in 2005)

From a golf only perspective, it probably shouldn't host a web.com tour event, but the old line clubs in town probably won't do it, and the club seems to like the attention and notoriety.   They did say that the one year they didn't have TV it was a lot less atmosphere around the tournament, for whatever that is worth.

Also, the player comments seem pretty favorable.  One mention on TV this year of what I have heard many times in the past, but the 11th green is said to have "too much slope in front" mostly from the perspective that it ball marks up too much from approach shots.  The Tour did tell me they prefer the fronts of greens to be a little flatter.  It is probably 2.25-2.5%, and they recommend under 2% to minimize ball marks and keep shots from backing up in the creek.  Frankly, that is one of those things I hadn't thought about until they mentioned it......

[Jason Topp]

Jeff:

I was in the area a few years back during the tournament and listened to some local broadcasters debate about whether or not the event was a major championship.  They ultimately concluded it was not but required extensive debate to reach that conclusion.

It seems as if the event is extremely popular locally.  

I say let them go low and draw huge galleries.  It sounds like a success to me.

[Dan Boerger]

Hey Jeff - I did not realize you were the architect for this course. A good friend of mine lives right near the 1st hole and I've played it plenty of times with him (he's scratch, me not so much). It's a great deal of fun and while it might not be "ideal" for what some consider for professional tournament play, it's a course I always look forward to playing. 18 is an awesome finishing hole IMO.

[BCrosby]

No.

MacK said something to the effect that good players who are playing well should shoot low scores on his courses.

Bob

[ward peyronnin]

Jeff

Those PGA tour official have the score in mind they want to see prevail and are very very good at setting up courses accordingly.

At Victoria's United Leasing event I was told that 11 undr was the bogey each year and they hit that number exactly each year. So for whatever reason they have a different marker for your course I would guess but you might try to talk with them and see what they were thinking

[Andrew Buck]

Seems like a lot fewer guys challenged 60 this week as they did in a couple of earlier events.

It's remarkable that a course with a course rating approaching 76 would be considered too easy to challenge the guys on the secondary tour.  Just shows it's a different game.  

[Paul Gray]

Is TOC a bad course on a calm day? Case closed.

No need to take any notice Jeff. Stick to your guns.

[Jeff_Brauer]

Barry,

LOL.  Can I blame it on an associate who left the firm years ago?  I wouldn't do that......BTW, I usually hear about the 485 yard 11th, into the wind over the 4th, but have had a few complaints there as well.  

Its a great strategic shorty 4, as you have to play very far left towards the rocks to be clear the tree on the right front of the green.  I understand that many players don't like the idea of being totally blocked if they hit the wrong side of the fw.  And, maybe it has grown in since the last time I played there, not sure.

I don't recall the routing being all that tough.  Sometimes, we have a land planner dictating what we do to an extent, but in this case, we routed the course, and the land plan followed in the leftover parcels.  Of course, we had to be cognizant of their needs, such as leaving a "useable" rectangle between 10, 14, 16 and 18, and they did come back and shift a few holes a few feet after doing the required math to fit their lots in, but overall, nothing that affected golf holes on gently rolling terrain.

Overall, I don't think that course gets ranked high enough in DFW, owing mostly to the fact that most raters for the DMN panel channel Yogi Berra - as in "no one goes there anymore, its just too busy!"

[Dave Doxey]

I don’t understand the obsession by golf writers about the score relative to par on the tour.  It’s just a number!  Pretty much every time, the guy with the lowest number wins….

Interesting golf courses are important.  I could design a course where pros could not break par, but it would not be fun or interesting for players or watchers, and certainly not satisfying for architecture enthusiasts.