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Mark Saltzman

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Golfweek's Best 2013: Great Britain and Ireland (Classic)
« on: July 07, 2013, 11:41:11 AM »
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Mac Plumart

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Re: Golfweek's Best 2013: Great Britain and Ireland (Classic)
« Reply #1 on: July 07, 2013, 02:04:26 PM »
Quite a few new ones to the list.
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Sportsman/Adventure loving golfer.

Mark Pearce

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Re: Golfweek's Best 2013: Great Britain and Ireland (Classic)
« Reply #2 on: July 07, 2013, 03:00:36 PM »
Woodall Spa at 11 is probably 50 places too high.  No sane individual with any judgment whatsoever could seriously argue that Woodhall Spa is a better course than Ganton.  How do these anomalies happen?
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In July I will be riding two stages of this year's Tour de France route for charity, including Mont Ventoux for the William Wates Memorial Trust (https://rideleloop.org/the-charity/) which supports underprivileged young people.

Bart Bradley

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Re: Golfweek's Best 2013: Great Britain and Ireland (Classic)
« Reply #3 on: July 07, 2013, 03:03:18 PM »
Mark:

Just played both of those courses back to back.  Care to explain why you feel that Ganton is so clearly better?

Bart
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Mark Pearce

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Re: Golfweek's Best 2013: Great Britain and Ireland (Classic)
« Reply #4 on: July 07, 2013, 04:51:21 PM »
Bart,

Playing Woodhall Spa with a bunch of GCAers in March highlighted to me how overrated it is.  The course relies on its bunkering, as the land. Is lacking in interest.  The greens are, mostly, flat.  The challenge comes almost entirely from avoiding the bunkering.  Ganton has better holes in every respect, the land is superior, the bunkering more restrained but more interesting.  Ganton has two or three great short par 4s, Woodhall none.  Honestly Woodhall would be behind any of the Berkshire, Swinley, West Hill, Woking and Alwoodley in my book. Ganton remains the best inland course I have played in the UK.
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In July I will be riding two stages of this year's Tour de France route for charity, including Mont Ventoux for the William Wates Memorial Trust (https://rideleloop.org/the-charity/) which supports underprivileged young people.

Bill_McBride

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Re: Golfweek's Best 2013: Great Britain and Ireland (Classic)
« Reply #5 on: July 07, 2013, 05:25:50 PM »
Have to say I am stunned to find Hankley Common above Deal.   It's not in the same league in any way.  Nice to see Liphook join the Top 50.   Maybe the Buda Cup improved the buzz about that fine course. 
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Mark Bourgeois

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Re: Golfweek's Best 2013: Great Britain and Ireland (Classic)
« Reply #6 on: July 07, 2013, 06:54:13 PM »
Quote from: Mark Pearce on July 07, 2013, 04:51:21 PM
Bart,

Playing Woodhall Spa with a bunch of GCAers in March highlighted to me how overrated it is.  The course relies on its bunkering, as the land. Is lacking in interest.  The greens are, mostly, flat.  The challenge comes almost entirely from avoiding the bunkering.  Ganton has better holes in every respect, the land is superior, the bunkering more restrained but more interesting.  Ganton has two or three great short par 4s, Woodhall none.  Honestly Woodhall would be behind any of the Berkshire, Swinley, West Hill, Woking and Alwoodley in my book. Ganton remains the best inland course I have played in the UK.

Welcome to the dark side. Other than comparing Woodhall Spa to Ganton you are spot on. Ganton's proper comparison set are other links courses. Yeah, okay, Ganton's got a few trees. So do Panmure and a few others. Yes, Ganton has one of the world's greatest short 4s. It also has stern 4s, lovely variety of par 3s (a postage stamp and a par 3.5 / 3.75 on the same course?), marvelous and grand greens, width, angles, a routing and maintenance combo that ensures whatever wind is "on offer" will be converted into true challenge.

Tom Doak wrote in TCG that Rye provides the best exception to the rule that design by committee equals mediocrity. I agree but think Ganton deserves to be in the same conversation. A Murderer's Row of architects have touched that ground. Also, for those into these sorts of thing it has a solid tournament lineage and Ganton Cake.

To repeat: the only reason people compare WH to Ganton is a) both have deep bunkers and b) people (auslanders) play them on the same trip. As you note, the bunkers may be similar but the bunkering is not.
« Last Edit: July 07, 2013, 08:26:18 PM by Mark Bourgeois »
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Ed Oden

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Re: Golfweek's Best 2013: Great Britain and Ireland (Classic)
« Reply #7 on: July 07, 2013, 11:44:32 PM »
I'm always fascinated by courses where others see greatness that I don't.  Ganton is one of those courses.  I just don't see it.  Perhaps that is the beauty of it all. 
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Ally Mcintosh

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Re: Golfweek's Best 2013: Great Britain and Ireland (Classic)
« Reply #8 on: July 08, 2013, 03:57:15 AM »
I like some elements of this list (particularly how the Lahinchs, Ryes & North Berwicks feature highly) but there are a few anomalies on a grand scale - inclusions and exclusions - that throw doubt...

Still believe the long standing GB&I Golf World list represents the best overall picture, despite their misfire with introducing Balmedie at No.8 before it even opened...
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Sean_A

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Re: Golfweek's Best 2013: Great Britain and Ireland (Classic)
« Reply #9 on: July 08, 2013, 08:18:28 AM »
No space for Formby - especially with a very mediocre Nefyn on the list?  Very bad oversight. 

I think Nairn, Liphook (especially Liphook!), Wallasey & St Andrews New are also easy targets for removal. 

Ciao
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New plays planned for 2025: Ludlow, Machrihanish Dunes, Dunaverty and Carradale

Mark Chaplin

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Re: Golfweek's Best 2013: Great Britain and Ireland (Classic) New
« Reply #10 on: July 08, 2013, 11:08:43 AM »
Sean I agree Nefyn is vastly overrated.

Rye is also overrated by everyone, it has 4 of 5 very good par 3s, excellent par 4s in 3,4,6,9,12,15,16 & 18. It's a fun quirky course but not world top 100, too many average holes are glossed over. Even 13 is a straight forward drive to a flat uninteresting fairway, you hit over a dune to a flat uninteresting fairway and green, only the fact it has a big dune in the way makes it different. However there's no feeding the ball off the slopes to get the best result.
« Last Edit: July 08, 2013, 12:29:22 PM by Mark Chaplin »
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Cave Nil Vino

Ally Mcintosh

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Re: Golfweek's Best 2013: Great Britain and Ireland (Classic)
« Reply #11 on: July 08, 2013, 11:21:40 AM »
Quote from: Sean_A on July 08, 2013, 08:18:28 AM
No space for Formby - especially with a very mediocre Nefyn on the list?  Very bad oversight. 

I think Nairn, Liphook (especially Liphook!), Wallasey & St Andrews New are also easy targets for removal. 

Ciao


What about Westward Ho!, Sean?

Big miss for me is West Sussex.
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