[Rees Milikin]

Jon,

Those mounds at Old White are so out of context.

I wonder if they're debris mounds or decorative mounds.

I'd be interested to know their origins

Pat,

I asked Lester George about these, but cannot find the thread where he addressed my question.  If I find it, I will post it here.

[Jon Cavalier]

Jon,

Those mounds at Old White are so out of context.

I wonder if they're debris mounds or decorative mounds.

I'd be interested to know their origins

Pat:

If I recall correctly, they're called dragon's teeth and were recreated by Lester George when he restored the golf course.  I cannot recall if the teeth were part of the original course as laid out by Raynor (I remember hearing that they were used to hide fill on the original course) or if George just added them as new on his own.

Jon

[Jon Cavalier]

Jon,

Those mounds at Old White are so out of context.

I wonder if they're debris mounds or decorative mounds.

I'd be interested to know their origins

Pat:

If I recall correctly, they're called dragon's teeth and were recreated by Lester George when he restored the golf course.  I cannot recall if the teeth were part of the original course as laid out by Raynor (I remember hearing that they were used to hide fill on the original course) or if George just added them as new on his own.

Jon

Pat:

I just noticed that Ran talked about the mounds in his profile of Old White.  Here's what he says about the fifth hole, where the mounds also exist:

"Fifth hole, 345 yards, Mounds; Referred to locally as Dragon Teeth, several holes at The Old White possess sharp conical mounds, which are unique as Macdonald never employed them elsewhere. The reason? As Raynor was building the course, he needed a place to pile rock as they weren’t going to cart it very far. At several places, they piled the rubble together and then grassed it over. No where do the mounds come more into play here."

Still doesn't answer the question as to the mounds on the Redan, but they're the exact same mounds as you see on the fifth.

[Patrick_Mucci]

Jon,

It's an interesting, if not strange, place to locate debris mounds

[ward peyronnin]

While the Piping Rock redan is uphill it is still backed by a slope and higher level of golf course behind it.

The NB redan has no horizon and thus feels comparably uphil and just as mysterious if not more so. Both great golf holes

[ward peyronnin]

I don't get his perception.

NGLA is an entirely different kind of property and not as completely quirky as NB ( not counting the windmill) as for one thing there are no stone walls that come into play; no double greens; the redan is different; etc

[Patrick_Mucci]

Ward,

The large Berms on # 8 & # 11 serve as high walls, with the ones on # 11 coming into play on the drive and approach

[paul cowley]

I think the mounds look great...debris function or not. My eyes were lead to them immediately. Good call Lester!

[ward peyronnin]

Thanks Pat you are right; not the same material so my memory didn't read them alike but functionally similar.

I still have trouble comparing Berwick's single point of large elevation change at the what? 4,5 13,14,15 location to the many muscular topographies at NGLA

Of course I was referring to TOC double greens

[Jon Cavalier]

I think the mounds look great...debris function or not. My eyes were lead to them immediately. Good call Lester!

Not to hijack the discussion, but in case anyone is interested, here are a couple shots of the mounds on the 5th hole.

From the fairway:


From behind the green:


For scale (that's me standing on top of the mound like an idiot):

[Patrick_Mucci]

I think the mounds look great...debris function or not. My eyes were lead to them immediately. Good call Lester!

Paul,

They obscure the golfer's view of the fronting bunker. 

Why do yo think they look good and not out of place.

Would you like to see them introduced to other Redans ?

[Patrick_Mucci]

Jon,

I think they look great on he 5th, but not the 8th (Redan)

[Jon Cavalier]

Jon,

I think they look great on he 5th, but not the 8th (Redan)

They certainly come into play more on the 5th - especially when the pin is over of the left side.

[Sean_A]

The uphill nature of the shot is so much more of a factor than any other redan I have played in the States.

It is barely uphill ... only 5 feet or so by my best estimation.  [I spent an hour once trying to check all the relative elevations of the green, approach, surrounds and tee.]  It feels more uphill than it is, because you can't see much of the green surface ... once it is at eye level and running away from you, it's blind.

Yes, but that minimal elevation is enough to suggest that a lower, running shot may do the trick.  On of the cool things about the more direct aerial approach is that if one catches the downslope its easy to kick thru the green and none of that can be seen from the tee. 

There is another Redan at Cavendish that nobody talks about.  It is severely uphill, but very much in keeping with the main principals of the original.  I like the hole a lot, but I like uphill 3s.

Ciao

Ciao 

[Jim Nugent]

What do you guys think of the Northshore Redan?  Looked real cool and a bit uphill in the pix I saw.   

[Thomas Dai]

These look interesting holes.
Does anyone have photos they are able to post of the Piping Rock and Old White Redans' as viewed from over the back on either/both sides?
atb

Thomas:
Here's the best view I have in my archives of the Redan at Piping Rock - it's taken from the left rear of the green back toward the tee boxes:

Thank you Jon. Now I understand the holes a bit more.
atb

[Jon Cavalier]

What do you guys think of the Northshore Redan?  Looked real cool and a bit uphill in the pix I saw.   

This is the redan from North Shore.



You're right - it is slightly uphill (or at least level to the point where you cannot see the entire putting surface from the tee). I liked it, and I liked the course as a whole.

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