Width of first/step cut of rough

[Brian Potash]

We are likely going to lay down 6 feet of bluegrass sod around our fairways to create a step cut of rough.  On our long range master plan, prepared by the Fazio Group, it was recommended that we make this cut 6 feet.  Our Super wants to maintain just over 4 ft of the 6 feet of new bluegrass sod as the step cut, as he wants to hand mow this and 2 times around is just over 4 feet.  We figured we'd lay down 6 feet in case we ever want to increase the step cut portion the additional 2 feet.

Does this seem like a sound plan?  Is 6 feet some sort of accepted USGA width?  Do you think there is a significant aesthetic and/or playability issue between 4 and 6 feet?

Thanks in advance for any advice.

Brian

[Brian Potash]

I do mean around the entire fairway from beginning to green.  The super wants to hand mow (2 laps around) this step cut of rough.

[Anthony_Nysse]

Usually a step cut is the width of a mower and depending on the riding mower, it can be 48"-72" wide, with 60" being common. Im going to guess your Supt wants to walk mow the intermediate cut around the greens and tie into the fairway intermediate cut. This is common. We did it for 2 years and will go back to it next summer. Most walk mowers are 21" wide, so 2 passes would be 42".
  Personally, what every width you decide on, I think that should be the width of your step cut. It would look weird to have a 48" step cut with 72" of new turf.

You can see here on #10 at Oakmont. The dark turf around the green is their step cut. The rest is their old turf. It would look goofy if the strip of turf wasn't maintained at step cut height.

[Grant Saunders]

You can see here on #10 at Oakmont. The dark turf around the green is their step cut. The rest is their old turf. It would look goofy if the strip of turf wasn't maintained at step cut height.

It doesnt look goofy now?

I have never understood the obsession with step cuts. Just make the fairways 6 foot wider on each side.

[Anthony_Nysse]

It had been sprayed with a fungicide that morning, so it's a little "stronger" than normal. Look at the pics in the Kinloch thread. They have been aerifying and inter seeding to have a pure step cut. After x amount of years, other grasses creep in and diminish the purity.

[Grant Saunders]

So it needs handmowing and fungicide applications? Not exactly sustainable maintenance

[Anthony_Nysse]

So it needs handmowing and fungicide applications? Not exactly sustainable maintenance

Not necessarily as they spray through the intermediate and also the approach with their foliar apps, which is much more common in the states than you may think, as is hand mowing the greens intermediate. I don't think that sustainability was ever a concern. Personally, I'd rather put a light, soft print walk mower, where the clipping can be bagged that and large piece of machinery beating up the interface area. A lot of tour events are done this way.
  Knowing the club Brian is at and where his Supt is from, I would guess this is similar to what actually done.

[Tom_Doak]

I hate the sound of sodding a ring of grass as a step cut, but if you're going to do it, make it the width you intend to maintain.  There would be nothing worse than a two-foot ring of thick bluegrass at 5 inches as a transition between a first cut of rough and the native grasses beyond.  The two-foot ring would probably be the worst place to wind up out of the whole course.

[Dan Herrmann]

I think it's a bad idea.  Just cut the fairway and rough to their proper heights.  Plus, check out Merion on TV - no step cut there.

[Grant Saunders]

So it needs handmowing and fungicide applications? Not exactly sustainable maintenance

Not necessarily as they spray through the intermediate and also the approach with their foliar apps, which is much more common in the states than you may think, as is hand mowing the greens intermediate. I don't think that sustainability was ever a concern. Personally, I'd rather put a light, soft print walk mower, where the clipping can be bagged that and large piece of machinery beating up the interface area. A lot of tour events are done this way.
  Knowing the club Brian is at and where his Supt is from, I would guess this is similar to what actually done.

So its receives foliar apps, fungicide, walk mowing and in cases aerification and seeding to retain purity? And may be sodded in to begin with?

How is the financial state of golf in the US at the moment.....

[Greg Chambers]

Why not just lower the height of cut on the existing rough to the desired width of the step cut?  I don't understand why it would be necessary to sod this area.  FWIW, I think maintaining a step cut is a waste of time, and resources.

[Anthony_Nysse]

Why not just lower the height of cut on the existing rough to the desired width of the step cut?  I don't understand why it would be necessary to sod this area.  FWIW, I think maintaining a step cut is a waste of time, and resources.

Purity. This isn't an uncommon thing on high end courses with bluegrass roughs. The pic of Oakmont was for the 2010 US Women's open. Spraying through the intermediate at the green may have just been for the event.

[Greg Chambers]

Purity?  If you have a stand of bluegrass rough, why not just lower the HOC for the first 60" or so?  I don't understand what you mean by purity.

[Anthony_Nysse]

Greg-these courses may start out with pure bluegrass but in as little as 5-8 years they become contaminated with poa, bent and maybe even bermuda. That's what purity is and that's why just lowering the HOC won't work, in fact it'll make the impurities stand out more. A lot of courses, once sodded out to become pure will begin a venting/intersecting program to allow the bluegrass to out compete other species grasses.

[Greg Chambers]

So is the step cut going to be re-sodded every 5-8 years when the bent and poa comes creeping back in?  Again, its a waste of time and resources for something that adds nothing to the playability of the golf course.

[Anthony_Nysse]

Greg-again, once the turf is pure and maintained to be remain pure, it's life spand is much longer than 5-8 years. Compare it to a pure bentgrass green. Poa will invade, but if a Supt is diligent in keeping it out, it will remain 99% pure. (Caves Valley comes to mind) This is why many course overseed it yearly to keep it dense. There are also chemicals out now to eliminate the poa and is harmless to the bluegrass. It makes it easier to keep the bluegrass populations high.
  You may think that it's a waste of time and/or adds nothing to the course, but if that's what a membership wants, a smart Superintendent will comply. A lot of courses with bluegrass/fescue/poa roughs are maintained at 2-2.5" or more. I don't think it's fair for a golfer to miss a shot by inches and being deeply penalized. Example-a collar at .375 right next to 2.5" rough? I'd rather see a .375" collar to a 1" rough, as would most golfers

[Greg Chambers]

The question was whether re-sodding this area is a sound plan.  Anthony, I understand the agronomics of it, as well as the pleasing the membership point of view.  From a playability standpoint, it's debatable, probably to no avail.  However, why would the course not just mow down the existing rough to the desired width, then go ahead with the maintenance regime to allow the bluegrass to out-compete the undesirables, and save the club the expense of re-sodding these areas.  It's a huge expense, and the money will no doubt be better spent somewhere else.  From a simply common sense point of view, re-sodding is a waste of time and resources.

[Anthony_Nysse]

The question was whether re-sodding this area is a sound plan.  Anthony, I understand the agronomics of it, as well as the pleasing the membership point of view.  From a playability standpoint, it's debatable, probably to no avail.  However, why would the course not just mow down the existing rough to the desired width, then go ahead with the maintenance regime to allow the bluegrass to out-compete the undesirables, and save the club the expense of re-sodding these areas.  It's a huge expense, and the money will no doubt be better spent somewhere else.  From a simply common sense point of view, re-sodding is a waste of time and resources.

I would never say that sodding is a waste of time and resources. A lot of courses sod the entire place to open sooner, avoid wash outs and have a mature plant.
 At a club like Brian's, I'd guess they do not want to wait 2-3 years to have a pure turf, and that if its not too badly contaminated. The combination of scalping, spraying, seeding, watering and repeat doesn't happen in a months time. Hell, the seed wont even be up in a month. It's instant gratification. All out approaches, tees and green surrounds are going to be sodded this summer. If money allows, less headaches persist.

[Brian Chapin]

I'm with Tom on this one.  Step cuts are bad enough on their own IMO, but a ring of bluegrass around entire fairways is gonna look silly.

[Anthony_Nysse]

It's more common than you think. A lot of high end courses, US Open course do some form of it. Take a look at the Kinloch thread and/or the pics of Kirtland here on GCA. They both did some form.  I don't plan to convince anyone why or its need, but an intermediate cut has a place on a large number of courses in America.  It creates definition and contrast.

http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,55683.0.html

A lot of clubs do it around the tees as well. Crests a nice, tight, uniformed edge of one turf. This is Winged Foot.

http://jonathanturf.wordpress.com/2012/05/22/far-too-long/

[Brian Potash]

To explain better, though I don't expect it to change the consensus -

The entire rough is bluegrass, until you get out to the native, which is fescue.  Currently the first 4 feet of bluegrass off the fairway is hand-mowed (2 times around).  The bluegrass closest to the bent fairways has become contaminated.  Our Super wants to rip out the contaminated sod and replace with new sod.  That's pretty much it. 

I was wondering if 6 feet of intermediate rough (what our master plan calls for) is some kind of standard length, or if 4 feet (what we currently have and what the Super wants to maintain) would be appropriate as well.  I though Anthony did a good job of explaining his answer to that question, as well as saying that we should only replace what we plan to maintain as intermediate cut.

Budgets and costs aside, what is wrong with having an area that is less penal than the primary rough for balls that just miss the fairway?

Brian

[Don_Mahaffey]

Walk mowing a sodded step cut?

I declare the great recession over.

[Brent Hutto]

I'd argue there's nothing either wrong or right about it. Really tight fairway, slightly longer "step cut" then really long rough is fine. Really tight fairway directly into a reasonable length of primary is even better.

It has sometimes seemed to me the "step cut" type of deal is being used to distract from or soften the impact of impractically deep "primary" rough.

My own aesthetic as well as playing preference is closely mown "fairway" and then a single type of "rough" that's kept to a length where even if it's difficult to play out of, you still don't have to step on the ball to find it. It seems to me just taking a lower whack at the "rough" type grass for a couple feet just off the fairway has the advantage of perhaps stopping a rolling ball before it disappears into the hay. But that sort of thing isn't really needed if the "rough" is kept shorter than hay length.

P.S. to Don_M...

I had the same initial thought. Of course in some places maybe there wasn't a recession at all, for all I know.