News:

Welcome to the Golf Club Atlas Discussion Group!

Each user is approved by the Golf Club Atlas editorial staff. For any new inquiries, please contact us.


Carl Nichols

Re: Why can't someone build the next Oakmont?
« Reply #25 on: March 20, 2013, 01:15:11 PM »
Lord knows knows people have been trying to build the next ANGC for decades. Must be harder than it looks.

Look no further, Mark.  And it's just a short ride away from you.   ;)

http://www.baywoodgreens.com/golf/index.htm

Best collection of flowers on a golf course I've ever seen . . . .

George Pazin

Re: Why can't someone build the next Oakmont?
« Reply #26 on: March 20, 2013, 05:25:32 PM »
George: I've never been to Oakmont, so really know nothing about it, but curious to hear you expand on what you think it is that people are missing? Genuine question

Mr. Pazin can you please expound on your disagreement?  Oakmont is special on many different levels IMO.  For me it's the History of what has happened there and who did it.  The Locker Room.  The Club House.  The Memorabilia.  And of course...the Course.

I'll try to answer both at once.

When I say the golf world needs more Oakmonts, I do not mean literal copies ala copying the Mona Lisa. I mean courses that are challenging to play - maybe even overwhelming initially - but in the right ways. It is telling to me that those who've played Oakmont more than a few times usually overcome their initial fear and find it playable, but incredibly difficult to really post an excellent score. It doesn't feature the more common score wreckers (water, trees, ob), but rather relies on the world's best green complexes and ingenious use of land that doesn't appear to be special (and by that, I mean markedly different than most of the topography in western PA and other such regions). It doesn't feature oceanside settings or the dramatic terrain of the sandhills, it just uses the same land we have all over the world far far far better than just about any other course with such land.

What concerns me about people learning the wrong lessons is that I fear the takeaway of many after playing Oakmont would be narrow fairways and brutal rough. Sure, it has that, but that's not what makes the course special.

I do think the golf culture at Oakmont is also a big part of what makes it special. They run greens at incredible speeds and yet, so far, no one is proposing to flatten the incredibly 1st, 2nd, 3rd, etc, greens to accommodate those speeds. For some reason - and I think it has to do with those who play it repeatedly and learn to play it properly - the borderline crazy greens are accepted. It's a shame that approach isn't taken with some other very special courses. And I think the history is just a byproduct of the course and the club. There are other clubs that have hosted many championships that don't strike me as nearly as special, but then everyone on the site knows I'm the most biased guy on here.

So I'm not looking for someone to knock off the Mona Lisa. I'm looking for someone to paint a different yet equally brilliant portrait.

 :)

I want a really challenging course that doesn't rely on water, forced carries, ob, trees, but one that you can learn to think your way around. Of course, as was wisely noted earlier, no one has successfully copied Augusta yet, either, so it may be a mistaken desire. I believe Tom Doak once said on here that Riverfront is the same course as Pac Dunes. That's what I mean by more Oakmonts.

Hope that makes sense.
Big drivers and hot balls are the product of golf course design that rewards the hit one far then hit one high strategy.  Shinny showed everyone how to take care of this whole technology dilemma. - Pat Brockwell, 6/24/04

Tim_Weiman

Re: Why can't someone build the next Oakmont?
« Reply #27 on: March 20, 2013, 05:59:25 PM »
George,

Your comments on the greens and culture of Oakmont are very interesting. As I am sure you are aware, different decisions were made at clubs like even Pine Valley (regarding green slope and speed).

Must be that old Pittsburgh toughness influence!
Tim Weiman

Tags: