How much should context matter in evaluating courses?

[Tom_Doak]

Tom's response raised in my mind a question that doesn't really have an answer...

Would The Golf Club still be seen as one of Pete Dye's best designs if he had built it in 2005 instead of as one of his very first designs? I'm by no means stating that the site was poor for a golf course--but the course certainly isn't as flashy as many of Dye's later works.

Then why is The Golf Club holding steady or moving up in the rankings in recent years?

I think it's solidifying its position as one of Pete's two or three best courses, and partly because it is a bit more low-profile and low-key, so it stands out from his newer work.  It better fits the trend in architecture now -- it's more minimalist than the TPC or French Lick.

[Andy Troeger]

Tom,
I think The Golf Club is one of Pete's best, but it seems as if your previous post suggested that if you built a low-key course now that it wouldn't be as highly regarded as your others based on comparisons. Obviously you are different architects with different careers and portfolios, but if this is true then isn't it at least possible that if The Golf Club had been built later that no one would have noticed it? This would have been a great shame of course...

The mind works in strange ways...

[Tom_Doak]

Tom,
I think The Golf Club is one of Pete's best, but it seems as if your previous post suggested that if you built a low-key course now that it wouldn't be as highly regarded as your others based on comparisons. Obviously you are different architects with different careers and portfolios, but if this is true then isn't it at least possible that if The Golf Club had been built later that no one would have noticed it? This would have been a great shame of course...

The mind works in strange ways...

Andy:

You could be right, that it would have just gone entirely unnoticed, since it's not a tournament site like so many of Pete's designs are.  But, I think the situation would be backwards for Pete from it is for me.  He would likely gain more attention now by building a more subtle course, where I would probably gain more attention if I built something really wild and difficult. 

Actually, I think that's one reason Bill Coore went for the Red course instead of the Blue at Streamsong.  It's not the choice people would have expected him to make.

[Andy Troeger]

Tom,
I can see where you're coming from. Its all hypothetical anyway really. One of the fun aspects of seeing Stone Eagle last week was that the property is so different from anything else you've done (that I've seen at least), even if many of the design principles were similar to your other work.

[Tom_Doak]

Tom,
I can see where you're coming from. Its all hypothetical anyway really. One of the fun aspects of seeing Stone Eagle last week was that the property is so different from anything else you've done (that I've seen at least), even if many of the design principles were similar to your other work.

Yes, that's one of the reasons I'm so fond of the course, even if a lot of people do take carts to play it. 

In hindsight, I might have pushed it further in terms of edginess to have something REALLY different from anything else in Palm Springs.  But the client was more concerned with making it playable for the guys they could most easily sell memberships to, although that turned out not to go according to plan at all.