Walking Pinehurst #2?

[Jason Thurman]

If you don't like being nickeled and dimed, Pinehurst Resort really isn't the place for you. As great a course as No. 2 is, it'll be a LONG time before I go back to do anything other than walk around the course. The mandatory caddie/cart is just one of many ways that they "get you."

It's a nice place and I'm glad I went, but when somebody's already paying several hundred bucks a night for a room it seems pretty low to tack on things like "resort fees" for an extra $40 a night or so. Count me in the group that doesn't need or particularly enjoy taking a caddie. My caddie at Pinehurst was good, but I can't say that he added much to the round for me. When I think back on caddie rounds I've played, the best case scenario for a caddie is that I don't remember them after the round. Worst-case scenario, they talk me out of my correct read and into an incorrect one on a couple of greens and start trying to talk me out of clubs that I'm comfortable with off the tee.

I'm very happy to support Evans Scholar caddie programs staffed with young people trying to earn a buck or two during the summer, like the program at my club. But I don't need to pay a grown man clinging to a career in the game after failing at his mini-tour ambitions to carry my clubs for me, especially for an extra $100+ on top of a resort and golf stay that's already about $800.

Again, I love Pinehurst as a place and as a golf course, but the resort's business model didn't make me a very happy customer.

[Craig Disher]

We shouldn't forget that Pinehurst is a resort that looks to make a profit. After the restoration of #2, I find it hard to fault them. The only change that I'd favor is having a one-price fee for playing #2 which includes either caddy (less tip) or cart. At a minimum that would remove the complaint that you shouldn't be required to pay for something you don't want.

I've never seen anyone walking with their bag down the cart path. I think the staff was having a little joke.

[Sean_A]

Guys,

If you don't like it, there are plenty of other nice options available in the area.  If you want to play one of the best courses in the world, which doesn't seem to be suffering for demand, pay up and shut up. The caddies are excellent, and why anyone but a regular would want to play the course without one is beyond me.

Jud

It simple, I don't want to pay the caddie fee and yes, I have avoided Pinehurst and will continue to do so.  If I am gonna drop a bomb on golf in the Carolinas, I much prefer Kiawah. 

Ciao 

[jeffwarne]

Guys,

If you don't like it, there are plenty of other nice options available in the area.  If you want to play one of the best courses in the world, which doesn't seem to be suffering for demand, pay up and shut up. The caddies are excellent, and why anyone but a regular would want to play the course without one is beyond me.

Jud

It simple, I don't want to pay the caddie fee and yes, I have avoided Pinehurst and will continue to do so.  If I am gonna drop a bomb on golf in the Carolinas, I much prefer Kiawah. 

Ciao 

Or you could just join Palmetto for less......

[Mark Pritchett]

I used a caddie when I played No.  2, had a great time and would do it again.   I agree with the idea of one price regardless of caddy or cart.  I think Kiawah is doing this now. 

[Jud_T]

Jud

It simple, I don't want to pay the caddie fee and yes, I have avoided Pinehurst and will continue to do so.  If I am gonna drop a bomb on golf in the Carolinas, I much prefer Kiawah.  

Ciao  

Really?  This is surprising to me.  I haven't played Kiawah and frankly it's not that high on my to-do list.  I'm not saying Pinehurst is a great value, it's not.  But they're entitled to charge what the market will bear and set whatever policies they desire.  My guess is after next year's Open, the tee sheet won't have too many holes in it.  Bandon is a much better value IMO, but I'd pay up for Pinehurst before going back to Pebble and certainly way before Whistling Straights.  Plus you can pony up for the one round on #2 and then move on down the road to Mid Pines, Dormie and Pine Needles and not completely destroy your wallet in the process.  

[Sean_A]

I am not itching to pay full whack at Kiawah again, but I much preferred the course, vibe, surroundings and general area over Pinehurst.

Jeff

I am not sure about membership, but I would like to Palmetto one day. 

Ciao

[Chris Buie]

I am not itching to pay full whack at Kiawah again, but I much preferred the course, vibe, surroundings and general area over Pinehurst.

Jeff

You'd rather play Kiawah than No. 2? Thank you for entertaining me this afternoon. Have a nice round.

It simple, I don't want to pay the caddie fee and yes, I have avoided Pinehurst and will continue to do so.  If I am gonna drop a bomb on golf in the Carolinas, I much prefer Kiawah.

Sean

Sean, someone recently pulled up the elaborate analysis Mark did last year on No. 2. I read through that again as well as the recent piece on Mid Pines.

Both of those works are truly spectacular. Yet, in your commentary on both you did not have one single good thing to say - only negative things. 100% negative commentary about the most fabulous golf projects. That's an interesting point of view to proceed with. Good luck with that.

Ciao

[Eric Strulowitz]

If you don't like being nickeled and dimed, Pinehurst Resort really isn't the place for you. As great a course as No. 2 is, it'll be a LONG time before I go back to do anything other than walk around the course. The mandatory caddie/cart is just one of many ways that they "get you."

It's a nice place and I'm glad I went, but when somebody's already paying several hundred bucks a night for a room it seems pretty low to tack on things like "resort fees" for an extra $40 a night or so. Count me in the group that doesn't need or particularly enjoy taking a caddie. My caddie at Pinehurst was good, but I can't say that he added much to the round for me. When I think back on caddie rounds I've played, the best case scenario for a caddie is that I don't remember them after the round. Worst-case scenario, they talk me out of my correct read and into an incorrect one on a couple of greens and start trying to talk me out of clubs that I'm comfortable with off the tee.

I'm very happy to support Evans Scholar caddie programs staffed with young people trying to earn a buck or two during the summer, like the program at my club. But I don't need to pay a grown man clinging to a career in the game after failing at his mini-tour ambitions to carry my clubs for me, especially for an extra $100+ on top of a resort and golf stay that's already about $800.

Again, I love Pinehurst as a place and as a golf course, but the resort's business model didn't make me a very happy customer.

Great post.

A lot of folks in the golf business assume that just because we can afford their venues, we are "nickel and dimeable", they think they see us 'coming.'   Well, some of us might be fortunate enough to be gainfully employed and make a decent income, but that does not mean that we are oblivious to the concept of value and bang for the buck.   I do not like to be viewed as a bottomless pit, I will shake my change loose to a point, but when it get to the pont of nickle and diming just because you think you can get away with it, it is really time to take my business elsewhere.  These resorts that charge all these fees and add-ons, they certainly have the right to do it, and if it is working, by all means continue.  Because that is the beauty of our system.  But I think we have come to the point, where you can no longer assume an inelastic price structure.  There are too many options out there,  too many deals with venues that really want your business and make you feel appreciated for your business.  Don't mind paying a premium for a course, but resent being nickled and dimed, whether it be with the food, be required to have a caddy or forecaddy, and not being allowed to walk.  Times have changed , demographics have changed, greed is greed, and economic stupidty is economic stupidity.  Those venues that nickle and dime, when so many do not, may be in for a surprise one day.  It is a different world,  in an economic sense they are still playing with hickory shafts.  One day when some of these resorts are being possessed by a bank, we will here "woe is me, woe is me.  How could this have happened"?   Does not take an Ivy League MBA degree to understand stupiidty when it comes to pricing and taking the customer for granted.  If fthe Fortune 500 managed themselves like the golf business, can you imagine the shape we would be in now?

[Mark Pritchett]

I recommend staying at the Pinecrest Inn.

[Sean_A]

I am not itching to pay full whack at Kiawah again, but I much preferred the course, vibe, surroundings and general area over Pinehurst.

Jeff

You'd rather play Kiawah than No. 2? Thank you for entertaining me this afternoon. Have a nice round.

It simple, I don't want to pay the caddie fee and yes, I have avoided Pinehurst and will continue to do so.  If I am gonna drop a bomb on golf in the Carolinas, I much prefer Kiawah.

Sean

Sean, someone recently pulled up the elaborate analysis Mark did last year on No. 2. I read through that again as well as the recent piece on Mid Pines.

Both of those works are truly spectacular. Yet, in your commentary on both you did not have one single good thing to say - only negative things. 100% negative commentary about the most fabulous golf projects. That's an interesting point of view to proceed with. Good luck with that.

Ciao

Chris

I would rather not play either course at near full whack, but for the reasons stated, I preferred Kiawah to the Pinehurst I played.  I will say this, Pinehurst's logo is far better than Kiawah's - tee hee.

Are you referring to Saltzy's tour?  If so, I think you are incorrect, but I could be wrong.    

One man's fabulous golf project is another man's meh.  At great expense, I gave Pinehurst an opportunity to impress and it failed to do so.  While I would like to see the reno, I don't have the inclination to be ripped off again.  No need to pity me or my opinion.  Its a big world out there and I find plenty to like which fits my idea of what should be spent on amusement.  

Mid-Pines?  Because of the excessive green fee given the quality and condition of the course I doubt I shall return, but I could be persuaded to go back there after the work is completed.  I like the course and have said so many times.    

Ciao

[Joe_Tucholski]

I am going to the resort in March are here are the options I was presented with :

1. Cart - take a cart & drive on the cart-path only
2. (a) Walking - take a caddy & walk anywhere
2. (B) Walking - do not take a caddy & walk on the cath-path only 

My mind nearly exploded at 2 (b) - they are basically saying that if I walk, I will not be allowed to walk on the fairways. This has been confirmed by the resort of 2 separate occasions.

I am all for maintaining a caddy program but thought this policy was beyond ridiculous. Taking into account the already high cost of staying at the resort, does not justify the need to take a caddy / cart IMHO.

Regards,

Patrick

2B is certainly insane.  Not sure how they would enforce it either.

Or you could just join Palmetto for less......

Or join Pinehurst.  Not sure what the initiation and monthly dues are for Palmetto but I would be surprised if it is lower than the 6 course membership option at Pinehurst.  When doing my search for places to join I didn't think there was much better value for a membership than Pinehurst, and it is where I ended up joining.  I also really appreciated that I could find all the information on the internet.

The 2012 information can be found online here:
http://pinehurstrealestatenc.com/2012memberpacket.pdf

Really?  This is surprising to me.  I haven't played Kiawah and frankly it's not that high on my to-do list.  I'm not saying Pinehurst is a great value, it's not.  But they're entitled to charge what the market will bear and set whatever policies they desire.  My guess is after next year's Open, the tee sheet won't have too many holes in it.  Bandon is a much better value IMO, but I'd pay up for Pinehurst before going back to Pebble and certainly way before Whistling Straights.  Plus you can pony up for the one round on #2 and then move on down the road to Mid Pines, Dormie and Pine Needles and not completely destroy your wallet in the process.  

Just to add to the fire.  Dormie has a similar policy (or did when I played last month).  Visitors must use carts or caddies on Tuesday or Wednesday (no walking on your own) or a caddy Thur-Sunday (no walking on your own).

Great post.

A lot of folks in the golf business assume that just because we can afford their venues, we are "nickel and dimeable", they think they see us 'coming.'   Well, some of us might be fortunate enough to be gainfully employed and make a decent income, but that does not mean that we are oblivious to the concept of value and bang for the buck.   I do not like to be viewed as a bottomless pit, I will shake my change loose to a point, but when it get to the pont of nickle and diming just because you think you can get away with it, it is really time to take my business elsewhere.  These resorts that charge all these fees and add-ons, they certainly have the right to do it, and if it is working, by all means continue. 

Regarding resort fees I can't stand fees that are added to published prices.  I feel like I'm being lied to.  It happens in a number of industries.  Clearly people in marketing think it results in more bookings than listing the all inclusive price.  That being said I am surprised when resorts don't have them.  Shoot I've stayed at a number of Marriotts that have a resort fee.

[Greg Holland]

Mid-Pines?  Because of the excessive green fee given the quality and condition of the course I doubt I shall return, but I could be persuaded to go back there after the work is completed.  I like the course and have said so many times.    

Ciao

What fee did you pay?  Last time I played Mid Pines, I think it was 90 bucks with cart, and then they allowed us a twilight afternoon replay at either course -- we played Pine Needles for $35.  Not bad for 36 on those two courses in my view.

[Bruce Wellmon]

Seriously what's wrong with most business models these days?
Last time I was at Pinehurst for a conference in January, played #2 with a caddie. Great day.
Previous 2 conferences in January. It was 30 something degrees for the high. Asked the guy at the check in desk, "how much to play #2?"
Full rate. 30 something degrees, no one on the course.  Full fare. Think they'd cut a deal to get someone out there. No.......

My conference was at Grandover this year. Cold. High of 34. Could we walk to keep warm? (There is one other group playing).
"No, we aren't set up for that."
Seriously.

$12 hot dogs.
Seriously.

[Eric Strulowitz]

Seriously what's wrong with most business models these days?
Last time I was at Pinehurst for a conference in January, played #2 with a caddie. Great day.
Previous 2 conferences in January. It was 30 something degrees for the high. Asked the guy at the check in desk, "how much to play #2?"
Full rate. 30 something degrees, no one on the course.  Full fare. Think they'd cut a deal to get someone out there. No.......

My conference was at Grandover this year. Cold. High of 34. Could we walk to keep warm? (There is one other group playing).
"No, we aren't set up for that."
Seriously.

$12 hot dogs.
Seriously.

HI Bruce

Amazing, isn't it.  Revenue is revenue, why don't they get it.  The airlines have got it, hotels have got it.  How many private clubs now offer tee times online and "members for a day" deals.    Amazing how many discounts  are out there,  because an occupied plane seat and an occupied hotel room sure beat an empty plane seat or empty hotel room.  A tee sheet with names on it sure beats a tee sheet that is blank.    The golf industry does not get it.   What is going on here, can people really be that stupid? 

Or are we so afraid of "riff-raff" infiltrating  our playgrounds that we ignore common sense and make stupid business decisions, that are ultimately self-destrcutive.  I have always joked.  Think there is hope for mankind?  If the golf industry is any template for society at large, think how cooked we all are. 

[Sean_A]

Mid-Pines?  Because of the excessive green fee given the quality and condition of the course I doubt I shall return, but I could be persuaded to go back there after the work is completed.  I like the course and have said so many times.    

Ciao

What fee did you pay?  Last time I played Mid Pines, I think it was 90 bucks with cart, and then they allowed us a twilight afternoon replay at either course -- we played Pine Needles for $35.  Not bad for 36 on those two courses in my view.

Greg

I don't recall, but it was high season package deal wiith Pine Needles.  I think its about $150 a game Mid Pines high season.  I can understand if people think thats good value for Mid-Pines, but I don't.  S Pines is in the same class and its under $100 a game (plus you get that crazy throwback bar) and even that is a bit pricey for whats on offer. 

Ciao

[Brian Joines]

Mid-Pines?  Because of the excessive green fee given the quality and condition of the course I doubt I shall return, but I could be persuaded to go back there after the work is completed.  I like the course and have said so many times.    

Ciao

What fee did you pay?  Last time I played Mid Pines, I think it was 90 bucks with cart, and then they allowed us a twilight afternoon replay at either course -- we played Pine Needles for $35.  Not bad for 36 on those two courses in my view.

Greg

I don't recall, but it was high season package deal wiith Pine Needles.  I think its about $150 a game Mid Pines high season.  I can understand if people think thats good value for Mid-Pines, but I don't.  S Pines is in the same class and its under $100 a game (plus you get that crazy throwback bar) and even that is a bit pricey for whats on offer. 

Ciao

Southern Pines was right around $30 when I played in August. (weekday late afternoon) Can't beat that value in Pinehurst

[Howard Riefs]

I used a caddie when I played No.  2, had a great time and would do it again.   I agree with the idea of one price regardless of caddy or cart.  I think Kiawah is doing this now. 

That's correct about Kiawah Ocean.  One bundled fee.

[Jonathan Decker]

Seriously what's wrong with most business models these days?
Last time I was at Pinehurst for a conference in January, played #2 with a caddie. Great day.
Previous 2 conferences in January. It was 30 something degrees for the high. Asked the guy at the check in desk, "how much to play #2?"
Full rate. 30 something degrees, no one on the course.  Full fare. Think they'd cut a deal to get someone out there. No.......

My conference was at Grandover this year. Cold. High of 34. Could we walk to keep warm? (There is one other group playing).
"No, we aren't set up for that."
Seriously.

$12 hot dogs.
Seriously.

HI Bruce

Amazing, isn't it.  Revenue is revenue, why don't they get it.  The airlines have got it, hotels have got it.  How many private clubs now offer tee times online and "members for a day" deals.    Amazing how many discounts  are out there,  because an occupied plane seat and an occupied hotel room sure beat an empty plane seat or empty hotel room.  A tee sheet with names on it sure beats a tee sheet that is blank.    The golf industry does not get it.   What is going on here, can people really be that stupid? 

Or are we so afraid of "riff-raff" infiltrating  our playgrounds that we ignore common sense and make stupid business decisions, that are ultimately self-destrcutive.  I have always joked.  Think there is hope for mankind?  If the golf industry is any template for society at large, think how cooked we all are. 

Bruce & Eric,

I agree with the two of you completely, but unfortunately Pinehurst Resort isn't looking to attract to many coupon clippers, and they certainly never give away a deal.  They really don't give a break to PGA Members either, so most of my fellow professionals and I avoid the resort, and sadly probably the area more than we should considering the history and the amount of great courses nearby.

The resort has so much history and appeal it may help make the demand a little less elastic than other golf facilities.  With the price they charge for a room, round of golf, and the food, it becomes clear they are seeking guests that don't mind spending money, a lot of money.  It is safe to say they don't need nor want the "riff raff".  For core golfers, there are plenty more valuable options in the Pinehurst area, and with the additions of Bandon and Streamsong to the national golf scene, Pinehurst will be skipped more often. 

As far as the cart/caddy/carry conundrum goes, it is just another example how the resort keeps the price conscious consumer away from their facility.  I seek to play No. 2 since the restoration, but highly doubt I will make a return trip anytime after.

[David Kelly]

A few years ago a new course opened by where I live and on my first (and only) visit while paying my green fee I inquired as to whether the course was walkable.  The guy at the desk said that yes, the golf course is walkable.  "Ok, I'll walk then."  "You can't, we don't allow walking, carts only."  So if they aren't forcing you to take a caddie to support the caddie program they are forcing you to take a cart to pay for the golf cart fleet.  Despite the platitudes periodically issued by the USGA, the golf industry in the USA just does not value walking. Granted, there are places that are exceptions.

[Alex Podlogar_Pinehurst Resort]

Sorry it took me a while to get back to you guys. It took forever for me to walk back to the cart path to retrieve my bag. (Kidding...)

Unfortunately, there appears to have been a bit of miscommunication in regards to Mr. Bryant, the original poster and Pinehurst. There is no such walking policy at Pinehurst where a player must walk the cart path.

However, the policy for Resort guests does indeed include the sole options of choosing to either ride (and yes, cart path only with the cart) or take a caddie should they decide to walk. On No. 2, Pinehurst Country Club members are allowed to walk and carry.

[Harwell Palmer]

+1
As a member this is dead on.
As a newly minted premiere member, no fee thru the "winter months", per 
Jay Briggs to walk #2.