Dormie Club: Hard fast and GREEN

[Andrew Buck]

I was just looking at the website and couldn't help but notice the emphasis they are placing on green (presumably as an answer to Pinehurst).  I couldn't help but find it ironic given their architects have been selling the brown message the last month, that their claim to best conditions in the area hinges on green.

http://www.dormieclub.com/index.html

[Don Mahaffey]

While ironic, it just goes to show that architects design and build courses, they don't manage them, usually.

It is an obvious swipe at Pinehurst and smells a little desperate to me.

[BHoover]

It's a swipe at Pinehurst, but I wonder if it's desperate or a smart business move intended to capitalize on the majority of retail golfers who don't think brown is beautiful?  Whether we like it or not, the general golfing public is not going to suddenly accept brown over green.  Dormie's management no doubt realizes that.

Can't fault management for doing it's part to increase business.

[Cory Lewis]

While I don't necessarily agree with what is on our website, the overwhelming majority of comments we heard from people attending the opens who came over to play was how bad #2 looked with the brown edges.  

[Don Mahaffey]

I'm not faulting anyone, but I don't believe it is the message Bill and Ben would send. They could have sent the same message in a much classier way by just talking up the conditioning.

They didn't need to diss Pinehurst. I know almost nothing about the operation at Dormie, but you'd think a business that is in such a competitive market, and difficult industry, would welcome the message of Pinehurst even if they choose to do it a little differently.

[BHoover]

I'm not faulting anyone, but I don't believe it is the message Bill and Ben would send. They could have sent the same message in a much classier way by just talking up the conditioning.

They didn't need to diss Pinehurst. I know almost nothing about the operation at Dormie, but you'd think a business that is in such a competitive market, and difficult industry, would welcome the message of Pinehurst even if they choose to do it a little differently.

Agreed, but I think it's probably irrelevant what C&C would do.  I'm sure they already received their design fee.  We can debate it all we want, but in a competitive market, the smart business decision is to do whatever it takes to bring in the $$$.

[Andrew Buck]

I would also think there would be some macro vs micro economic pull for a club like Dormie.  

I'll admit, i do find a slightly more uniform coloration aesthetically pleasing, as long as the playing condition is the same.  That said, on a Macro level, Dormie would certainly benefit from the public wanting to visit the Pinehurst area.  Maybe I'm too much of a Niche golfer, but I would think it would be more effective to draw the parallels between #2 and Dormie that other area courses don't have, so the competition is against all other Pinehurst area courses except #2.  

I wouldn't want to paint #2 as my competition, but rather every other course in the area.

[Rob Hallford]

Anyone been down there lately?  Last Fall the course was in pretty bad shape and seemed to be not getting much play (odd--I'd have thought the high ranking and proximity to PH would drive play).  I seriously doubt the greens are firm right now (bent grass, NC, July).  I wonder if/when they'll convert to Bermuda.

[Sean_A]

I played Dormie last October and it was in great nick.

Ciao

[Ryan Taylor]

I played Dormie in early June and it was in great shape. Greens were fairly firm and fast.

[John Foley]

Played there twice last summer & fall. In the Summer about now - greens were soft - fw's long & slow - bunch of unfixed divots through out.

Played it early October and it was as fine a conditioned course I had ever played - F & F, ultra smooth greens not a divot in sight.

Love the place!

[Cory Lewis]

I seriously doubt the greens are firm right now (bent grass, NC, July).  I wonder if/when they'll convert to Bermuda.

The course is actually in great shape right now.  We aerated right after the Open's and the greens have come back very well.  Granted it's July and they aren't running at 12 right now, but we get compliments every day about the conditioning of the course.

[Joe_Tucholski]

Do they ever paint the fairways?     

[Jon Cavalier]

Dormie is one or my favorite courses in Pinehurst. I've played it about once a year for the past several years and have always found it to be in wonderful shape - green, brown or in between.

[Brian Finn]

Dormie is one or my favorite courses in Pinehurst. I've played it about once a year for the past several years and have always found it to be in wonderful shape - green, brown or in between.

+1

I have played Dormie several times over the past few years, and regardless of grass color(s), the course has been in great condition, playing firm and fast with smooth rolling greens. 

[Rob Hallford]

I seriously doubt the greens are firm right now (bent grass, NC, July).  I wonder if/when they'll convert to Bermuda.

The course is actually in great shape right now.  We aerated right after the Open's and the greens have come back very well.  Granted it's July and they aren't running at 12 right now, but we get compliments every day about the conditioning of the course.

Thanks for the update.  I may try to join y'all Saturday for a round.

[jeffwarne]

While ironic, it just goes to show that architects design and build courses, they don't manage them, usually.

It is an obvious swipe at Pinehurst and smells a little desperate to me.

Seems like at best a conflicting message to me.
i would've gone with "firm and fast" and let the customer form whatever else impressions from the obvious green depicted in the picture.
It would seem Dormie has always tried to market towards the sophisticated golfer, emphasize firm and fast, and hopefully piggyback off being a good neighbor to Pinehurst, and at least to their shared (re)designers
To take such a tack puts them in competition with the dozens of green courses in the area, despite their piss poor designs.
To say nothing of a cheap shot a revered and presumably important neighbor.
What's next? a price war?...or did they already do that?

[JESII]

How long has Dormie Club been open?

[Kris Shreiner]

Agree with Don's take that there was no need to slight Pinehurst. Dormie would look like death warmed over as well if they were presenting two U.S. Open tests back-to-back. Tout your excellent  conditions, great experience and leave it at that. If the ownership and management would listen to folks like Mr. Lewis and several others who have tried to convey the need for a consistent, focused vision for the place, they WOULD NOT have struggled as they have.
As someone who has followed the tortured evolution of Dormie Club very closely from the earliest days...it's crimiinal the bungling and confusion that has transpired and continued to hinder the project's potential.
The global financial crisis unfolding on the cusp of Dormie's opening certainly made for a tough challenge, but make no mistake, INTERNAL, totally preventable miscues have been the main culprits in their struggles.
If they can get their vision and presentation functioning in unison, they still have a chance to emerge with a superb golf experience. I hope they can take a step back, LISTEN to those that can help them, and nail it going forward!
Time will tell.
Cheers,
K

[Philip Caccamise]

Anyone been down there lately?  Last Fall the course was in pretty bad shape and seemed to be not getting much play (odd--I'd have thought the high ranking and proximity to PH would drive play).  I seriously doubt the greens are firm right now (bent grass, NC, July).  I wonder if/when they'll convert to Bermuda.

I played there Saturday and the course was in fantastic shape. The greens were definitely firm although not ultra fast (understandable, as you said: bent grass, NC, July.)

[Paul Gray]

It's a swipe at Pinehurst, but I wonder if it's desperate or a smart business move intended to capitalize on the majority of retail golfers who don't think brown is beautiful?  Whether we like it or not, the general golfing public is not going to suddenly accept brown over green.  Dormie's management no doubt realizes that.

Can't fault management for doing it's part to increase business.

I suspect it's both. Certainly there's a desperation to defend the status quo and not see the average golfer migrate to a different aesthetic but there's a recognition within that which is largely based on business.

[Carl Rogers]

I played Dormie last October and it was in great nick.

Ciao

Played it also last Fall and really look forward to going back.

But to this thread .... In the American South, the summer heat is a given, but the amount of rainfall in a given summer is not.  My observation is that grass can burn out and the amount of water applied to the course and grass conditions have to be constantly monitored.  Firm Fast and Brown was the natural turf conditions in a cool more constantly damp UK climate, right?

[Paul Gray]

I played Dormie last October and it was in great nick.

Ciao

Played it also last Fall and really look forward to going back.

But to this thread .... In the American South, the summer heat is a given, but the amount of rainfall in a given summer is not.  My observation is that grass can burn out and the amount of water applied to the course and grass conditions have to be constantly monitored.  Firm Fast and Brown was the natural turf conditions in a cool more constantly damp UK climate, right?

That really does depend. I wouldn't exactly say brown was normal in Scotland in the winter! But, yes, down here on the south coast in July it's pretty brown on the links, not so much on less sandy soils though.

[Mark Bourgeois]

Because it has outside interests and takes regular holidays?

[Brian Finn]

Why doesn't Pinehurst burn out?

Because it has outside interests and takes regular holidays?