Does anchoring help grow the game?

[BCrosby]

Duncan -

Your putting set-up sounds perfectly legal to me. The 'anchoring' at issue is about stabilizing your club against your torso. Elbows can be stabilized any way you want.

Arnold Palmer anchors both of his elbows against his hips when putting. There are many variations on that theme.

Bob

 

[Rich Goodale]

"I can name at leaxst 6 older peopl at my club who are staying in the game because of anchored putters."

Mark Johnson is right. While anchoring might not attract new players to the game, there is no doubt in my mind it does keep older players, many of them very highly skilled, in the game and it allows them to compete at a highly competitive level.

One of the reasons Sam Snead was able to compete on the PGA Tour well into his 50's was that he found a way to putt decently by abandoning the traditional style of putting. I certainly feel the best interests of the game were served by having Sam Snead remain competitive and playing in front of the public when he was in his 50's, 60's & 70's.

Is there any doubt that having Fred Couples in the hunt at the Masters over the past few years has been good for the game, regardless of whether he was using a belly putter? Would the Champions Tour be as interesting if Langer, Kite, O'Meara, etc. were not competing on it?      

While anchoring may not "grow" the game, it does keep it from shrinking.

BS, David (with all due respect)

I play a lot of my competitive golf against very competitive seniors (age 50+, handicap +2 up to , and less than 5% of them use belly putters.  Alternatively, when I spent a week partly watching some of the best young amateurs play in the cottish Amateur, probably 15-20% of the competitors used belly putters.  It is a cancer on the game.

If the USGA/R&A lose there cojones again over this one, next year I'm going to putt with a snooker cue, and dare them to stop me!

Rich,
I've never putted with a belly putter, and don't really care how they rule on them.
But can you explain why you feel "it's a cancer on the game"?
Are they disfiguring greens or courses because of them?

My only criticism is that they are disfiguring courses because of hot balls and clubs, and the USGA has chosen to attack grooves and belly putters

I guess I should just be glad the USGA has shown they have any cajones at all........

Hi Jeff

I think it is a "cancer on the game" in that the belly putter is something which is not natural to the game which our grandfathers and fathers played and, because the body of golf has no defenses against it it spreads malignantly, like a cancer.  What's next, a scoop club which is fixed to your glove and allows you shovel your ball out of bunkers (now that we can legally ground our club in bunkers)?  Of course, you are completely right that the new balls and implements (particularly "woods" in respect to the latter) are also cancers (and for the same reasons), but lets start with the low hanging fruit first, please....

Rich

[BCrosby]

Jeff -

I don't know about Rich's cancer metaphor, but anchoring should be banned. For no higher reason than it is a non-traditional golfing stroke that reduces the skill required to play the game.

I like the way Sully put it. Anchoring fundamentally changes the act of putting.

With lighter clubheads and shafts, I can imagine anchoring wedges in chipping. Maybe on longer shots too.

Better candidates for the cancer metaphor are the new balls and implements. But that's another topic.

Bob   

[jeffwarne]

Clearly I need to try this belly putting since it's so easy .
been working on the first part

I'm just amazed we've watched our classic courses disfigured by reactions to long hitting equipment which disproportionately favors players with higher clubhead speeds, (we routinely see 325-350 yard drives on TV), and the first rules response is grooves and the second is belly putters.
The amazing thing is how staunchly higher handicap and shorter hitters defend the new equipment, who are getting almost no distance benefit.

Does anyone know ANY top amateur or touring professional who hits less drivers now due to the groove rule?
80 yards out of the rough with my grooveless SW is still easier than 140 from the fairway

[jeffwarne]

Jeff -

I don't know about Rich's cancer metaphor, but anchoring should be banned. For no higher reason than it is a non-traditional golfing stroke that reduces the skill required to play the game.

I like the way Sully put it. Anchoring fundamentally changes the act of putting.

With lighter clubheads and shafts, I can imagine anchoring wedges in chipping. Maybe on longer shots too.

Better candidates for the cancer metaphor are the new balls and implements. But that's another topic.

Bob   

So if I invent a new way to drive the ball, nontraditionally, that helps many players play better, it could be banned?
Say a Happy Gilmore?

[BCrosby]

Jeff -

New ways to drive the ball are fine. I invent a new swing or two every time I play. More power to Happy Gilmore.

But if you figure out a way to lock your driver against your torso that makes it easier to stay on plane, or keep the club face square, or move the ball left or right,  etc., then you have reduced the challenges historically  associated with the golf swing. You've found a non-traditional shortcut to hitting the ball well.

The rationale for an anti-anchoring rule is much like the rule against putting croquet style. There too the normal challenges of a putting stroke are short-circuited. 

Bob   

[Duncan Cheslett]

Duncan -

Your putting set-up sounds perfectly legal to me. The 'anchoring' at issue is about stabilizing your club against your torso. Elbows can be stabilized any way you want.

Arnold Palmer anchors both of his elbows against his hips when putting. There are many variations on that theme.

Bob

 

Bob,

Of course you're quite right; anchoring one part of your body against another has always been a legitimate way of enhancing stability and consistancy of stroke.

A ban on anchoring the butt of the club against the body might finish off the belly putter but it wouldn't affect the broom handle. It is the hand which is anchored against the body.




Incidentally, as regards the belly putting style, I play regularly with a short rotund guy who uses a regular length putter. The butt is rammed against his belly whether he wants it to be or not. The same goes for all his other clubs!

Should he be compelled to buy new equipment just because he's a fat bastard?

[Rich Goodale]

Incidentally, as regards the belly putting style, I play regularly with a short rotund guy who uses a regular length putter. The butt is rammed against his belly whether he wants it to be or not. The same goes for all his other clubs!

Should he be compelled to buy new equipment just because he's a fat bastard?

No, but he should be put in the "Fat Bastards" Flight in the Club Championships.

[Jud_T]

Duncan,

It's my understanding that Adam's stroke would also be made illegal.  That would still be  considered anchoring under the proposed definition I believe.

[jeffwarne]

Read the last three posts and tell me how enforceable/interpretable this rule would be.

An organization that said "no statistically significant distance gains" for 10 years straight,(as average tour driving distance went up 30 yards) is going to write a rule that causes a fat guy to get a shorter putter etc.

The "low hanging fruit"(hot equipment) has been hanging there for 10-12 years, with no results, I have no confidence that is worth the effort, or that the rulesmakers are capable of writing and enforcing a rule that will leave a lot of room for interpretation.

Wait until someone's back surgeon writes a note saying someone's being discriminated against and being barred due to disability.
What a bumbling organization,
How'd that groove rule work out again?

[JESII]

Duncan,

It's my understanding that Adam's stroke would also be made illegal.  That would still be  considered anchoring under the proposed definition I believe.

Jud,

I haven't seen the proposed definition, what does it say?

[Jud_T]

Jim,

I misspoke.  I haven't seen any specific language.  I'm not sure anyone has.  It's just my interpretation of what anchoring is from a lot of reading and discussion on the subject.  Sorry.

[Adam Clayman]

To the original question... hell no, it just helps bad putters ( unless you are handicapped in some way or have the yips.)

Cheers,
Kris

Kris, You touch on an interesting tangent. Handicapped individuals.

If the USGA tries to define anchoring, and, it doesn't treat like situations alike, such as the creative swings from a overcoming some physical handicap, they will have missed a huge boat. There's nothing more amazing than seeing an amputee play golf. Jim Abbot wasn't too shabby either. ( not comparing golf with the game of baseball )

[Rich Goodale]

Read the last three posts and tell me how enforceable/interpretable this rule would be.

An organization that said "no statistically significant distance gains" for 10 years straight,(as average tour driving distance went up 30 yards) is going to write a rule that causes a fat guy to get a shorter putter etc.

The "low hanging fruit"(hot equipment) has been hanging there for 10-12 years, with no results, I have no confidence that is worth the effort, or that the rulesmakers are capable of writing and enforcing a rule that will leave a lot of room for interpretation.

Wait until someone's back surgeon writes a note saying someone's being discriminated against and being barred due to disability.
What a bumbling organization,
How'd that groove rule work out again?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TBQxG0Z72qM&feature=related

[jeffwarne]

Rich,
Why did I keep expecting Mr. Zulu or Leonard Nimoy to do a cameo?

[Rich Goodale]

Rich,
Why did I keep expecting Mr. Zulu or Leonard Nimoy to do a cameo?

No idea, Jeff.  But, next time I'll order my crews phasers to be put on "stun."

[William_G]

Duncan -

Your putting set-up sounds perfectly legal to me. The 'anchoring' at issue is about stabilizing your club against your torso. Elbows can be stabilized any way you want.

Arnold Palmer anchors both of his elbows against his hips when putting. There are many variations on that theme.

Bob

 

Bob,

This effort by Adam Scott is just not how putting was meant to be...karma may have cost him the Open, even though Ernie was anchoring as well...Adam appears to be so talented that to see this is sacriligous, may be he's not that talented, maybe it's just a job