Could Europe's win actually harm the Ryder Cup?

[Neil White]

All,

From reading a few of the comments on the posts re: the Ryder Cup I get the feeling that many believe the Euro's wanted the RC more than America.

If this is true could America fall out of love with the RC altogether?

Neil.

[Mark Chaplin]

Why doesn't the USPGA sell the tickets through their golf club professionals??

[Neil White]

Brian,

I hope you're right.

Maybe my question needs expanding to 'could Europe's potential dominance harm the RC'?

There is no doubting the enthusiasm shown by the US side, especially when playing in the foursomes and fourballs - yet I didn't really sense the same sort of energy from them in the singles.

But - from an outsider looking in - the American's thrive off the win, their apparent need to win.  I say 'need' and not 'desire'.  When the proverbial hit the fan yesterday and they could see their 'win' slipping out of their grasp very few seemed to be able to take it up a notch and as such the team failed.

If Europe were to win the next two or more RC's would the US be able to find that 'desire' when they have not tasted the win they so obviously need.

Neil.

[Tim Gavrich]

I think it'll help, given the axiom that you learn more from defeat than from victory. In 1999, a generation of young American golfers watched that American comeback and thought, "Man, would I love to be a part of something like that." Snedeker, Dustin Johnson, Webb Simpson and Keegan Bradley would've all been teenagers then. Their counterparts in Europe saw it and thought, "Man, I NEVER want something like that to happen." McIlroy, Kaymer, Molinari, Rose, Colsaerts and Garcia (who lived it!) were all teenagers then.

So in a dozen years, perhaps we get to turn the tide with a crop of young golfers who watched yesterday.

[Tim Martin]

Quite the opposite. The more the proud Americans get beaten by the Europeans, the bigger the event becomes. I mean it's hardly one sided is it? More often than not, a missed or made putt on the final couple of greens is all that decides the 28 matches. You see the buzz they get off it - and I think most of that is because it is the one week every two years where they get to play for someone other than themselves. That's why they get so emotional - because it's kind of overwhelming how hard they are all trying for each other - as Jack Nicklaus said in the Sky commentary - nothing more is on the line than bragging rights. But the good will it seems to generate amongst the team mates can last a long time - take Seve and Faldo - I have read numerous times that they did not enjoy a good relationship prior to the 1995 Ryder Cup - but that moment they had on that final green Nick Faldo always mentions it was the greatest moment of his career. The mutual respect. So I can't see the event getting anything but bigger. Now if they could eject every single one of those mashed potatoes clowns and if the Keegan Bradleys could tone it down just a tiny bit it would pretty much be the perfect event.

Brian-Very well said. The premise in the original post is far fetched and unsupported. I would say that the loss by the US yesterday will only grow the will of the USA to win and enhance the RC.

[Jud_T]

No.  This thing will only get bigger.  Great for the European Tour and for the game in general.  The U.S. has some young blood now with winning records.  Some of the veterans who only know losing will be put out to pasture.  This was a fantastic venue and perhaps the greatest Ryder Cup ever, regardless of outcome.  I wouldn't bet the ranch on Europe continuing to run the tables.

[Ivan Morris]

The gods of golf have given back to Olazabal what they took away on the 17th green at Brookline in 1999. Had Ollie handled that awful episode in a bad way at the time - would the golfing gods have 'delivered' salvation yesterday at Medinah? There was a spiritual aspect to this European victory that is best highlighted by the Seve emblem. The ghosts of Brookline and the self belief of Poulter and Rose were massive. It was magical. Europe wanted it far more than the Americans. Tiger is a liability on a Team USA that needs a few more Zach Johnson's. 

[Mark Bourgeois]

I don't see European dominance, I see highly competitive matches, which explains a lot of the "hate."

No, what will kill the RC as we think of it today is globalization-wrought familiarity. With so many euros becoming familiar to American players and fans, the Americans flew to Chicago to play a guy from Chicago and his buddies from Orlando.

As the fans cheered their hometown hero, Luke Donald, Mickelson and Rose toned it down, lest they embarrass themselves in front of their fellow Tour member.

[Don_Mahaffey]

This idea that an individual or team "wants it more" is so stupid. What, the euros wanted to be down going into the singles?
Are you telling me Furyk didn't want to make the putt on 18?

They got on a roll and played great, and some of the Americans wilted under the pressure. Nothing to do with wanting it. I guarantee you the Euros wanted it just as much as the US in '99 and the US wanted it just as much yesterday. In sport momentum is a powerful thing and its fun to ride and not so fun to rolled over by.

Do Westwood, Poulter, and Donald not "want" a major as bad as Bradley, Simpson, Kaymer and Lawrie? I think they all want it because its what they play the game for. Better golf usually wins and the Euros played better golf yesterday and used the underdog role going in to play lose and without fear. 

As for the US not being a team. They sure looked good in the team events.

Lastly,

[Mike Hendren]

Now if they could eject every single one of those mashed potatoes clowns and if the Keegan Bradleys could tone it down just a tiny bit it would pretty much be the perfect event.

Was it just me of did anyone else hear some doofus yell "veal scaloppini?"

Bogey

[Mark_Rowlinson]

I am old enough to remember Ryder Cups when they were not the Europeans playing the Americans, but GB and I. We lost time and time again, usually by a wide margin, apart from some heroics at Lindrick in 1957. But they kept trying and the Americans put out their strongest sides. They treated it seriously. Along came Seve and GB and I became the Europeans. European supremacy did not happen overnight, there were the inevitable defeats. But they believed they could do it and eventually they did, even on American soil. And what we saw in the singles probably bore out the fact that a number of these Europeans are or have recently been No 1 in the world rankings, and several are ranked in the top 10 in the world.

[Bruce Katona]

I was liucky enough to see the last 45 minutes yesterday on TV.  Good ending, but overshadowed this go round here by NFL football and the refturn of real referees from their labor strike self-imposed vacation.

[Rick Shefchik]

Now if they could eject every single one of those mashed potatoes clowns and if the Keegan Bradleys could tone it down just a tiny bit it would pretty much be the perfect event.

Was it just me of did anyone else hear some doofus yell "veal scaloppini?"

Bogey

I heard it. I'm sure whoever shouted it doesn't remember doing it this morning.

[Peter Pallotta]

Poor old President's Cup, and sad news for anyone who really wants to see Canadians, Fijians, South Africans, and Brazilians. I can't imagine any America being remotely interested in suiting up in a year's time to play anyone at all.

Peter

[Sam Morrow]

Europe's having the cup in 85, 87, 89, 95, 97, 02, 04, 06, and 10 didn't seem to hurt the event.

[Matthew Petersen]

Europe's having the cup in 85, 87, 89, 95, 97, 02, 04, 06, and 10 didn't seem to hurt the event.

Yeah, a much bigger threat to the Cup were the years of one-sided dominance. Obviously for years the US dominated over the UK, but over the past 20 years the tables have turned. Europe winning consecutive cups (04 & 06) by huge margins did threaten to turn people off the event. But then America got a win in 08 and the last two have been extremely competitive.

[Phil Benedict]

Without giving it much thought I can reel off a bunch of Europeans with great Ryder Cup records (Monty, Seve, Olly, Westwood, Poulter, Donald, Sergio) but I can't come up with a great American Ryder Cup player since the days of Larry Nelson and Lanny.  Maybe the Gritty Little Bruin or Zinger but I don't know what their overall records were.

[Wayne_Kozun]

Poor old President's Cup, and sad news for anyone who really wants to see Canadians, Fijians, South Africans, and Brazilians. I can't imagine any America being remotely interested in suiting up in a year's time to play anyone at all.

Which is why I keep saying that the Prez Cup should be rolled into the Ryder Cup to make it a 3 team event.  There have been times in the last decade or so when, on paper, the Prez Cup International team was the best when Vijay, Ernie, Retief, etc were all at the top of their game.  It is a shame that they don't get to play in this event.

[Duncan Cheslett]

Perhaps it's time to extend the Ryder Cup to players from other continents. 

I'm sure that us Europeans could be given a decent run for our money if we had to face a 'Rest of the World' team...

[Tim Pitner]

Poor old President's Cup, and sad news for anyone who really wants to see Canadians, Fijians, South Africans, and Brazilians. I can't imagine any America being remotely interested in suiting up in a year's time to play anyone at all.

Which is why I keep saying that the Prez Cup should be rolled into the Ryder Cup to make it a 3 team event.  There have been times in the last decade or so when, on paper, the Prez Cup International team was the best when Vijay, Ernie, Retief, etc were all at the top of their game.  It is a shame that they don't get to play in this event.

That's not going to happen--what is the incentive for the PGA to risk devaluaing their Ryder Cup event by including another team, especially a contrived one that doesn't represent a distinct geographical entity?  I like a lot of the South African and Australian golfers (not to discriminate against the other ROW players), but it doesn't make any sense to water down the Ryder Cup in an attempt to improve the President's Cup, an event that no one cares too much about. 

[Matthew Petersen]

Without giving it much thought I can reel off a bunch of Europeans with great Ryder Cup records (Monty, Seve, Olly, Westwood, Poulter, Donald, Sergio) but I can't come up with a great American Ryder Cup player since the days of Larry Nelson and Lanny.  Maybe the Gritty Little Bruin or Zinger but I don't know what their overall records were.

This may be the best hope for the US going forward. The best US players this year were clearly the young guys.

Phil played well this year, but it's maybe the first time he's really looked good in a RC, that i can recall. Tiger continues to be miserable in it. Stricker and Furyk were certainly the two weakest Americans and the matches really came down to them.

Meanwhile, the young guys looked excited to be there and ready for the moment. Keegan Bradley was fiery and played great golf. He also proved to be an excellent teammate, which is a big thing the US has lacked. DJ was undefeated. Dufner was great. Snedeker looked tired by the end on Sunday but he didn't seem bothered by the moment and he has the putting of a guy you always want on your team.

[Phil McDade]

Without giving it much thought I can reel off a bunch of Europeans with great Ryder Cup records (Monty, Seve, Olly, Westwood, Poulter, Donald, Sergio) but I can't come up with a great American Ryder Cup player since the days of Larry Nelson and Lanny.  Maybe the Gritty Little Bruin or Zinger but I don't know what their overall records were.

This may be the best hope for the US going forward. The best US players this year were clearly the young guys.

Phil played well this year, but it's maybe the first time he's really looked good in a RC, that i can recall. Tiger continues to be miserable in it. Stricker and Furyk were certainly the two weakest Americans and the matches really came down to them.

Meanwhile, the young guys looked excited to be there and ready for the moment. Keegan Bradley was fiery and played great golf. He also proved to be an excellent teammate, which is a big thing the US has lacked. DJ was undefeated. Dufner was great. Snedeker looked tired by the end on Sunday but he didn't seem bothered by the moment and he has the putting of a guy you always want on your team.

Pavin was 8-5 in his RC career; Zinger was 5-7-3 (his strong singles record of 2-0-2 was negated by his 1-5-1 record in fourballs, often at the expense of Seve and Ollie).

The list of post-1981 (1983 was in my view when the RCup really took off, with a narrow win against Euro down in Florida) U.S. players with a winning record (10 decisions or more) is somewhat limited: Maggert 6-5; Sutton 7-5-4; Lehman 5-3-2; Wadkins 20-11-3 (he bridged both eras); Kite 15-9-4 (same as Wadkins -- both eras), now Zach Johnson @ 6-4-1.

Not Strange (6-12-2), not Love (9-12-5), not Payne Stewart, who would've been a captain (8-9-2), not Couples, talked about as a captain (7-9-4), not Toms (also talked about as a captain) 4-6-2.

On the other hand, Larry Nelson was 9-3-1 and Hale Irwin was 13-5-2. The argument against guys like that is that they may not relate well to the current Tour players on the U.S. side. Maybe those players need less relating to.