Any thoughts on how Medinah will fare as a match play venue?

[George Pazin]

Seems like we have a lot of posters with a lot of experience at Medinah, just wondering what their thoughts are.

Any particular holes that will play better for match play? Worse? Are there any obvious candidates for the obligatory "Let's move up the tees 75 yards to make this driveable" hole?

Is there a plaque by Sergio's tree?

[Phil McDade]

With the usual caveat that I enjoy commenting on courses I've never played...

It looks like a solid match-play course, from what I can tell from the scorecard and overhead aerials. For instance:

-- There is an interesting combination of holes (5-6-7) on the front nine that -- on the scorecard -- involve a short par 5 (536 tips), a long par 4 (509) and a long par 5 (617) that some will be able to teach in two, presumably, while others won't. That stretch seems to have some interesting potential in match-play, with arguably two half-par holes back-to-back followed by a long par 5 where different strategies might also come into play.

-- Three of the par 3s are over water, with water a threat (in varying degrees) on all three. Two of those are holes #13 and 17 -- ideally placed for match-play, as they are among the last six holes in play.

-- There's an interesting, short (only sub-400 yard) par 4 on the back nine (#15), bunkerless but with water threatening both the drive and the approach shot. That could be interesting for someone hoping to engineer a back-nine comeback.

-- The 18th has always struck me as a good, solid, closing hole where par is a good score -- a hole that demands someone who is 1 up on the 18th tee, for instance, still needs to play well to close out a match.

Good hole-by-hole aerial here: http://course.bluegolf.com/bluegolf/course/course/medinahcc3/aerial.htm

[SL_Solow]

I think Brad is going to have an article discussing this issue very soon.  As for Sergio's tree, R.I.P.   It is in pieces near the Superintendents headquarters.  Expect rough to be very mangeable as DLIII follow Azinger's model for course set up favoring the "bombers".

[JR Potts]

I will reply with additional detail when I have some more time but I can state that the anticipated set-up should yield a lot of birdies.  The intermediate rough has been cut to under an inch.  The primary rough will max out at 2 1/2 inches.  I have been told that Kerry Haigh wants the greens to roll at 11-11 1/2.....which personally, I hope is untrue.

Regarding flexibility in the set-up for match play, I understand that the tee on 11 may be moved up to the front tee pad - thus, allowing many of the bombers the opportunity to drive it over the trees on the left and possibly, onto/around the green (370 yards).

And since Phil mentions the 15th hole - depending on the wind conditions, it should be driveable for most of the field from the front pad and if the wind complies, should be a spectacular Ryder Cup hole.  After the Ryder Cup however, it will still be appropriately labeled as the worst hole on the golf course.

Finally, Phil, you mention the three holes over water - realistically, only two of them are true water holes.  #13, which can be played as short at 140 and as long as 240, strongest hazard isn't the water - and any well struck shot should safely make it over the water.  

All in all, I think it will be a great match play course.  There are about 7-8 legitimate birdie holes on the course....and about 7-8 where you will happily take par....must of which are interspersed with each other - providing terrific opportunities for momentum changing wins/losses.

I was going to post a separate thread answering any questions one might have but I think this one will do.  Fire away if you wish.

[Terry Lavin]

I think it will be a terrific site for match play.  The par 3 holes are all very demanding yet allow a player to play safe or be very aggressive.  The course is obviously long by most standards and will tend to reward bombers, especially with light rough, but placement on the proper side of the fairway will be paramount on several key holes.  As for the final stretch, the rebuilt 15th will be a place where some key matches may be decided.  There's a lot of potential risk and there's the potential reward of eagle if the player gets his drive (and keeps his drive on) the green.  That hole might be set up as short as 290 for competition.  Medinah gets some bashing because of repeated renovations or because of a supposed monochromatic architectural style, but there's no doubting that it is big, brawny, dramatic and a great host for championship golf.

[Phil McDade]

Finally, Phil, you mention the three holes over water - realistically, only two of them are true water holes.  #13, which can be played as short at 140 and as long as 240, strongest hazard isn't the water - and any well struck shot should safely make it over the water.  

JR:

Agree on #13, although I was hoping that for some of the Ryder Cup matches, it would be set up at @ 240 yds and be a real b..ll-buster. With a wind out of the north -- not unheard of in late September in these parts -- wouldn't that at least put the thought of being able to carry the lake in the minds of some (not all...) players?

[JR Potts]

I think it will be played at 240 for a good amount of the matches....however, these guys hit is so good that while one or two may hit it in the water, it will certainly be the anomaly.

I've hosted a lot of tour quality players over the years - and I have never seen any of those guys hit it in the water from that back tee.  They most often find the rough behind the green or the bunker long and left.  My shots on the other hand......SPLASH!

[Tim_Cronin]

The rhythm of the back nine is perfect for match play:
10 - big par 5
11 - potential birdie par 4, with the potential for driving from the front tee
12 - hard par 4
13 - par 3 swing hole
14 - par 4.5, reachable in 2 for everyone
15 - potentially drivable par 4, but water lurks
16 - world-class uphill par 4
17 - par 3 swing hole
18 - par 4 to a plateau green; with the nerves jangling and the world watching, the second shot isn't easy

Love's setup takes the fairway collar and extends it behind fairway bunkers. This will be a risk-reward Ryder Cup. JR, will the members want to keep the setup?

[Ivan Morris]

Yep - great finish at Medinah. 3 down and three to go is not, necessarily, beaten. There are opportunities to birdie by playing well and drop shots if you get tight and nervy. 

[JR Potts]

JR, will the members want to keep the setup?

Tim:

I am not sure but we have been accustomed to playing the DLIII set-up over the last two years leading up to the Ryder Cup.  It is certainly easier as play around the greens becomes much less penal.  Also, with the round counts we do out there this set-up is more likely to move people around the course quicker.

That said, I enjoy playing the course more with the rough up a bit.  (I was hoping this would happen a bit this year with the tree removal but it never rained - leaving the rough in the trees largely dormant).  I think a healthy rough brings more strategy into play and prevents guys from just bombing it as far down the hole as possible (especially on the par 5).  Despite what some on here believe, there is plenty of room to drive it at Medinah as the fairways are quite expansive.  With the tree removal, a little rough will bring some teeth back into wayward drives...and I think that's what will be eventually preferred. 

We shall see though.

[Carl Rogers]

I am interested in the mowing lines in the landing zones and rough length.  How much penalty will there be for the "errant" drive?

[JR Potts]

The rough length is addressed above.  The penalties for errant drives largely depend on the hole with fairway bunkers on a few, trees on a few and dog legs coupled with heavily bunkered green surrounds on the remaining few.  All in all though, there should be the possibility of a recovery shot on every hole.

[Adam Clayman]

How will the conditioning be?

It's been a tough year all over.

[JR Potts]

The conditioning will be great....but not without a lot of stress and hard work by our Super over the past month.   The last two years have been a significant struggle given the fact that we starting growing in new fairways and greens three years ago....and really never got a great shot at growing in the fairways due to the last few summers and our continual play/abuse of the course.

The greens have been in really good shape for most of the year and are almost perfect today but the fairways have really struggled.  If we were hosting the PGA Championship this year (assuming we kept play the same this year in a PGA year - which we would never have done) the fairways would have been ugly.  That said, we were never preparing for the PGA....but the Ryder Cup which is in late September...typically, the best time of the year for Chicagoland golf conditions.

We sodded some areas on 6 holes (the poa died out and given the cart traffic, didnt have much of a chance of a quick bounce-back) punched the fairways in the stressed areas and laid down some seed a few weeks ago....thankfully, the weather turned a bit, we got some cooperative nighttime temps and the fairways are going crazy.  The course, while it should be open on Labor Day weekend, is essentially closed.  The fairways would be in good enough condition to successfully host the Ryder Cup in a week or two.  We have 4-5 weeks so it should be perfect.

That said, it has been a stressful few summers (ie, July and August) for our superintendent and the Club.  While I'm excited for the Ryder Cup....I'm almost more excited for it to be over.

Once the Ryder Cup is over, it will be first time since 1986 that we weren't preparing for a tournament.  So instead of enjoying it, we decided that we should hire Tom Doak to tear up our Number 1 course the day after the Ryder Cup and close that for the next year.  

2014 can't come soon enough.

[Tim_Cronin]

And then comes the tweaking on No. 2!

[JR Potts]

And then comes the tweaking on No. 2!

How did you know?

[Tim_Cronin]

And then comes the tweaking on No. 2!

How did you know?

A little bird told me.

[Howard Riefs]

I flew into ORD this afternoon (from DFW) and we went right over Medinah. Looks like the grandstands and corporate tents are ready to go.

[Mark Johnson]

JR,

when is/was the last round for members at #3 before they shut it down for the ryder cup?

[JR Potts]

August 20th.

[Howard Riefs]

From the Sun-Times on Tuesday (http://www.suntimes.com/sports/14792880-419/as-ryder-cup-nears-medinahs-course-no-3-is-grounds-for-excitement.html):

Haigh, though, has a slight issue with the members and guests who’ve had the pleasure of playing Course No. 3.

‘‘The members hit too many fairways,’’ he said jokingly. ‘‘It’s a very talented group.’’

The fairways are his only concern because of a combination of wear and tear, as well as weather. Tyrrell said the different types of grass at Medinah ideally grow at a soil temperature of around 50 to 65 degrees. But with a hot June and July — including a stretch of 45 days when the soil temperature was over 80 — the fairways, in particular, took a beating.

‘‘Rain would help and some cooler temperatures, and if we have one of those great Chicago Septembers, we’ll be just fine,’’ said Michael Belot, the director of the 2012 Ryder Cup. ‘‘The course will be in phenomenal shape.’’

Added Tyrrell, ‘‘The fairways are really filled in.’’

To expedite the process, Medinah closed Course No. 3 on the 20th, and its board is voting soon to determine whether any members can play it in the coming weeks, although on a very limited basis.

Ryan, is the PGA being alarmist on the condition of the fairways?

[JR Potts]

No.

The conditions of the fairways will be great.  They're pretty damn good right now.

The Club made the choice to shut down the course 14 days early so we could aerate some areas and sod some areas on 6 fairways....not the PGA.

I think everyone appreciates the magnitude of the event and wants Medinah to be seen in the best possible light - even if it means closing the course a few days earlier than expected.